Dilemma w/ NFA items & local range.

[usmcvet]

Gibbs Rule #18: It's better to seek forgiveness than ask permission.

I've lived by that one. Long before Jethro came up with his list.


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[Jmedic_]

All valid and interesting points guys. Just so everyone knows. When I spoke to them on the phone, I told them I have PDFs on my phone and that they could inspect them if they’d like, or if that wasn’t enough, I would bring the physical documents along w/ me for verification. She said neither of those would be acceptable, that it is policy to have the documents scanned, saved, and put “on file”. I’ve had dealings w/ local ATF here in Miami before, and they’ve been surprising helpful, so I figured I’d give them a call and explain, go shoot, not say sh*t, and see what happens. If something happens, deal w/ it accordingly. It just annoys me, and I want them to get off of this BS.

[usmcvet]

They have no right to the documents. That do they see as their liability?


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[P2000]

Think about what you just said. You want to make a counterfeit BATF tax stamp letter and give it to a stranger.

The first part is a crime. The second part is akin to daring to be caught counterfeiting BATF tax forms.

Too bad he's not in Las Vegas... he could make some fake casino chips too.

What if you put a diagonal line all the way across the form, write "invalid copy, not for legal purposes". That way it is in no way an attempt to counterfeit anything.

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[Jmedic_]

What if you put a diagonal line all the way across the form, write "invalid copy, not for legal purposes". That way it is in no way an attempt to counterfeit anything.

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My issue would be they would still have all my info, unless I changed it all up. But, I have a sneaking suspicion that if they’re requesting to see the documents, they’re going to want to see my license to verify my info is “correct”.

They have no right to the documents. That do they see as their liability?

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Yes sir. Correct on both accounts.

[ggammell]

How small can you shrink a form on your photo copier?

[P2000]

My issue would be they would still have all my info, unless I changed it all up. But, I have a sneaking suspicion that if they’re requesting to see the documents, they’re going to want to see my license to verify my info is “correct”.

True, that would stop the plan. And I'm just speaking hypothetically with all of this to show that they are not the law and don't need to be treated with total honesty as long as you are not breaking the law. And also, I wouldn't want them copying my driver's license either, that is just as bad as copying the forms.



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[Jmedic_]

How small can you shrink a form on your photo copier?

😂 I see where you’re coming from. Pretty damn small, actually.

True, that would stop the plan. And I'm just speaking hypothetically with all of this to show that they are not the law and don't need to be treated with total honesty as long as you are not breaking the law. And also, I wouldn't want them copying my driver's license either, that is just as bad as copying the forms.



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I know, and I agree. I think I’ve settled that I will begrudgingly show them my paperwork, if asked. But, don’t think I’ll be letting them copy anything, just on the principle of it all. I mean, it’s all just so ridiculous. The rumors and hearsay that floats around the gun community is ridiculous. Probably some moron friend giving his expert advice one day to the owner/manager/etc about NFA items and compliance and here we are. I suspect that they don’t deal with NFA items often, as I can’t imagine this type of thing flying for very long with NFA owners, then again, who knows.

[ST911]

Silly and redundant, but not unprecedented. Their house, their rules. Vote with your wallet.

[el_chupo_]

Are we talking SBR's, or cans? If it is an SBR, maybe time to drop $300 and set up a pistol lower and just keep on trucking.

Beyond that, I would do as suggested above, show up, let them check your ammo, and go shooting. Personally, I would leave all my forms at home, in the car, or in the range bag (not visible, options based on your own personal paperwork plan). If someone asks about the forms, I would tell them that you can bring them next time you come, but it also gives you the opportunity to ask questions as to the reasons without the "hostility" of openly refusing to give them paperwork at the time. If you dont have it, you are not openly defying their orders which can cause problems. Ask things like what they do with the paperwork, what guarantee they have that they will keep the information safe, their security for their electronic system, etc. If you want to get really pissy, ask for copies of their insurance policy, specifically related to identity theft or breach of security in their policy, ask for the name and contact information for their insurance company (to give to your NFA attorney), etc. They wont have the answers, but it is up to you how much of a pain you want/need to be. It may also make them think about their policy a bit.

It is their range, their rules, so you can also hit the highway without any discussion. But they also have to make sure they stay in business, and you dont know what else has gone on at the range, if they have had issues before or been named in a lawsuit, etc.