Are Lightweight Builds the Pinnacle?

[Diamondback]

If you remove the buffer all together that’s a solid 5 oz right there. Cash money


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Heck, remove the handguard and just hold the barrel with an oven mitt at that rate.

[GeneralPurpose]

That is a nice looking rifle.

Thanks.

[Duffy]

Agreed. I'm not too keen on titanium myself, V7 is fairly consistent in its course, this isn't a fad for them, but a direction. I don't like skeletonized control surfaces, this isn't a a jab at V7, though it does have some components with skeletonized surface. Removing usable surface area for weight saving isn't a good trade off, it'd make sense if the surface area doesn't contribute to strength and usability. I have not seen any skeletonized control surfaces that don't negatively impact ergonomics yet.

This subject as been an obsession of mine since the beginning of the, uh, fad. There is a right way to do lightweight within a spectrum of the subject and also degrees of lightweight within that, and yes I agree much of the stuff out there is crap. V Seven Weapons sets the bar for lightweight performance, IMO, focusing on improved materials and design for most parts. And for most purposes, even a duty/patrol rifle, reasonable lightweight is wholly appreciated with no significant negatives. Lighter as a goal without durability compromise is a worthy pursuit for military too but with durability and strength coming as less flexible priorities than a home defense rifle, patrol rifle, or range toy. The one thing I can think of that comes as a major detraction is price, especially when we are pushing the envelope of maintaining proper function and seeking lightweight. These space metals arn't cheep!

[jerrysimons]

Agreed. I'm not too keen on titanium myself, V7 is fairly consistent in its course, this isn't a fad for them, but a direction. I don't like skeletonized control surfaces, this isn't a a jab at V7, though it does have some components with skeletonized surface. Removing usable surface area for weight saving isn't a good trade off, it'd make sense if the surface area doesn't contribute to strength and usability. I have not seen any skeletonized control surfaces that don't negatively impact ergonomics yet.

Yeah I see what you are saying and appreciate the differences too, as all of my non-lightweight focused rifles have FCD parts in them and I love the attention to ergonomics. Where weight wasn't as high of a priority, ergonomics and or durability wins out overtime. One example is the charging handle, yes V7W's CH has a lightning cut and that hurts ergonomics. I see its uses though on some guns. I think of lightweight parts applied by spectrum of use with increasing sincerity and need for durability, we have range toys, competition and hunting guns, home defense, patrol/duty rifle, and go-to-war guns. Within this spectrum I would be willing to put a lightning cut charging handle on range toys, hunting, and home defense use lightweight builds. Competition, patrol/duty and go-to-war guns builds I would prefer ergonomics and robustness to marginal weight savings and those would get a Gisselle Super CH or similar.

I have got several concrete examples of prioritizing lightweight parts selection in builds within this spectrum where I have done and still have some revisions to make to a range toy and home defense ultralight builds, but my biggest hurdle at this point to show some recent projects where I have focused on lightweight again is image hosting after photo-bucket mess and some small details. This thread has helped me process thoughts I was going to write up for another ultralight patrol/duty build and a complete V7WS ultralight home defense (version 2) build.

[ST911]

Let's keep the thread technically oriented, please and thank you. Off-topic content pruned.

[Duffy]

My favorite AR is the same one I've been shooting for the last 13 years, with an LMT MRP. Its medium contoured barrel is heavy, there's no diet I could put it on to meaningfully reduce its weight. I'm far from a lightweight NAZI, it does get heavy enough that in the middle of a course, I have to tuck the stock between my arm and body to hold the gun steady to do a mag change.

I know what I need to do if I want to reduce its weight: flute or turn down the barrel, its weight has a negative effect to its user as it's slower to manipulate than a lighter gun. I like the idea of light weight, as long as it's practical, a point that's conspicuously missing on these hipster/fashion/lifestyle "ounce is pound" LW builds that should have remained an engineering exercise.

The last pic posted by General Purpose is an example of practical light weight. By the looks of it, I couldn't tell its weight, or that it's light weight, since it doesn't call attention to itself, essentially demanding people to look at it. Smart selection of components can achieve it without making it look like a space gun, or "star wars gun", enough of the movie themed guns already.

[vicious_cb]

Skeletonizing receivers is a terrible way to achieve weight reduction. I think the Hodge approach is much better, pretty much the same mil-spec dimensions but in AlLi to reduce weight. Of course it costs more to use exotic materials but this is the way forward.

[jerrysimons]

Skeletonizing receivers is a terrible way to achieve weight reduction. I think the Hodge approach is much better, pretty much the same mil-spec dimensions but in AlLi to reduce weight. Of course it costs more to use exotic materials but this is the way forward.

I think AlLi (amazing stuff!) is best used in two ways since it is both lighter and stronger than 7075t6. Use the increased strength of the advanced material to remove dimensions where possible and achieve lighter weight for about the same strength as the standard profile, standard material base piece. Or use the reduced weight of the material to add dimenensions to the standard profile, standard material base piece to achieve yields in strength for the same weight as the base piece. V7WS has tended toward the former with billet AlLi, Hodge went for the latter with forged AlLi.

It would be amazing if Knight's started using AlLi for the next gen of big frame SR-25 AAC rifles with a focus on weight reduction!

[Torquetard]

Light weight, cool. Skeletonized see thru lower neon green yolo420xGucciManeInstagram crap, belongs at the recycling center

[0uTkAsT]

I think most ARs weigh a perfectly fine amount - however, I don't think it's a good idea to sacrifice capability just to have a lightweight gun. You may have been exaggerating to prove a point when you said a '6920 with nothing', but a good light and a silencer are critical in my view for a carbine that could see serious use. With some thought, it's easy to make a very capable rifle that weighs about what a 6920 does. My 10.5" weighs 7 lbs, 2.90 ounces empty and it has a light, silencer, optic, and BUIS. I aimed for reducing weight in the barrel and handguard, not in the receivers, BCG, and buffer.



This thread seems to be focused on what I would consider "featherweight" builds rather than lightweight. But there also seems to be a lot of vitriol over what other people do with their guns. It's a hobby for most people, they can like what they like. If I had a ton of money to throw around, I would build a featherweight gun for fun.

These are my thoughts exactly and my go-to rifle is set up nearly identically.

Everything is give and take and there are pros and cons to it all. Weight is a significant factor for me in building / carrying / running a gun. It does not, however, take priority over durability, reliability and consistency. I don't need the most absolutely rugged setup out there that can survive drops from a helicopter unscathed. I also do not need a 5lb pack rifle to hump up and over mountains day in and day out. I try to strike a balance in between, and there are many good options. My personal favorite weight saving combo is the BCM KMR/MCMR, ELW barrel, Aero Ultralight mounts without BUIS, and a mini scout light configuration. I can't run an RDS due to astigmatism, so I am stuck with an LPVO. But even with that instant half pound weight penalty, my rifle feels svelte and balances nicely without any fancy receivers or internals.