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Thread: "Uniqueness" of Church Security

  1. #21
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    Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...

    Quote Originally Posted by echo5whiskey View Post
    Once you get past those, it seems to me that the standard measures for security would still apply; hardened physical security, access control, surveillance, command and control, written and practiced plans, and--most importantly--training.
    Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

    The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the same CARE (Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation) Team and are served with the same resolve.

    That's the uniqueness.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...

    Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

    The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation Team and are served with the same resolve.

    That's the uniqueness.
    Right. That addresses the communication barrier perfectly.

    So, in reference to my original post, is that communication barrier enough reason to go to a "specialist" in church security? Would it not be just as prudent to consult with any other risk assessment professional/security trainer so long as the language is changed to fulfill the congregational/denominational/religious hierarchy need?
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_War_Wagon View Post
    REALLY?! They seem to be MORE on top of it here in Pittsburgh, than the churches are!

    https://jfedpgh.org/security-events - hope that helps your cause where you are. They hired a former FBI official to design security for the Synagogues here in Pittsburgh!

    [/url]
    My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
    But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.

    I presented to the board a plan that we could implement for less than $1000 for some improvements and then some involvement by members.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
    But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.

    I presented to the board a plan that we could implement for less than $1000 for some improvements and then some involvement by members.
    Churches dont need MI6 kinda security, all the hate and shooting at church are done by mindless people who have no tactical training, a couple guys with permit, long range shooting experience and experience in evacuating people and some little medical emergencies will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...



    Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

    The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the same CARE (Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation) Team and are served with the same resolve.

    That's the uniqueness.
    i agree with you to some level but i think you are over thinking this. Ushers can't play security guards, a few cameras will be great but they have to be looking outside, metal detector will also go a long way to make sure unwanted people dont step in.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo5whiskey View Post
    Right. That addresses the communication barrier perfectly.

    So, in reference to my original post, is that communication barrier enough reason to go to a "specialist" in church security? Would it not be just as prudent to consult with any other risk assessment professional/security trainer so long as the language is changed to fulfill the congregational/denominational/religious hierarchy need?
    I can tell you with certainty that in my AOR religious entities can and do reach out to the local FBI/JTTF for security preparedness advice, and at least around here, they get it. The main Synagogue in my AOR regularly attends the Urban Area Security Initiative meetings as well. They request and receive security support and advice through this venue as well.

    If the congregation is large enough, I don't think it's a bad idea to reach out to security professionals for advice. Whether they should spend money out of church coffers would depend on how large they are (IMO, mega-church yes, typical large church no) and how much free advice is available to them.

    IF state law allows CCW in churches like they do around here, a lot of them will have a men's group that meets outside regular services on a variety of topics. A lot of them will wind up with sub-groups that work out who carries in church, establish their attendance prior to each service and strategically sit so they know where each other are and have good vantage points to intercede should an active threat present itself. Others will serve as ushers so as to have good vantage points. Working as a volunteer and being legally armed should preclude the need for a state security license. Some even have regular "range days" together and take defense courses as a group. In many cases, merely knowing who's who and having a plan in place is good enough.

    If the church has a budget for physical security a good place to look for passive security features is CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). Simply Google CPTED and you'll find tons of information. I'd also recommend the FEMA website for free training on the National Incident Management System. https://www.fema.gov/training-0

    There's no magic bullet obviously, but once you start looking in the right places, you'll find all sorts of resources that don't cost a lot of money. Hope this helps!
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
    But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.
    What could I do to entice you to come over to the Missouri Lutherans?
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotmeshotu View Post
    Churches dont need MI6 kinda security, all the hate and shooting at church are done by mindless people who have no tactical training, a couple guys with permit, long range shooting experience and experience in evacuating people and some little medical emergencies will do.

    i agree with you to some level but i think you are over thinking this. Ushers can't play security guards, a few cameras will be great but they have to be looking outside, metal detector will also go a long way to make sure unwanted people dont step in.
    I don't think anyone is advocating turning a sanctuary into Langley. The point is not to meet a threat with an individual possessing an equal amount of training. The point is to train above what the perceived threat is capable of, in order to more effectively neutralize the threat.

    Why can't ushers "play" security guard? Do you have some sort of data that supports that statement, or is it just an opinion stated as fact?
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    I can tell you with certainty that in my AOR religious entities can and do reach out to the local FBI/JTTF for security preparedness advice, and at least around here, they get it. The main Synagogue in my AOR regularly attends the Urban Area Security Initiative meetings as well. They request and receive security support and advice through this venue as well.

    If the congregation is large enough, I don't think it's a bad idea to reach out to security professionals for advice. Whether they should spend money out of church coffers would depend on how large they are (IMO, mega-church yes, typical large church no) and how much free advice is available to them.

    IF state law allows CCW in churches like they do around here, a lot of them will have a men's group that meets outside regular services on a variety of topics. A lot of them will wind up with sub-groups that work out who carries in church, establish their attendance prior to each service and strategically sit so they know where each other are and have good vantage points to intercede should an active threat present itself. Others will serve as ushers so as to have good vantage points. Working as a volunteer and being legally armed should preclude the need for a state security license. Some even have regular "range days" together and take defense courses as a group. In many cases, merely knowing who's who and having a plan in place is good enough.

    If the church has a budget for physical security a good place to look for passive security features is CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). Simply Google CPTED and you'll find tons of information. I'd also recommend the FEMA website for free training on the National Incident Management System. https://www.fema.gov/training-0

    There's no magic bullet obviously, but once you start looking in the right places, you'll find all sorts of resources that don't cost a lot of money. Hope this helps!
    My point is not whether or not a church should seek advice and training. It is addressing the relevancy of church security "experts." I think LE would be a much better resource, and (aside from the above posted takeaways) I don't see how a standard security consultant would be any less useful; but that is my current opinion, and why I started this thread.
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

  9. #29
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    Ushers can be used as your early warning system, if you don't have enough members that can act as security.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo5whiskey View Post
    I don't think anyone is advocating turning a sanctuary into Langley. The point is not to meet a threat with an individual possessing an equal amount of training. The point is to train above what the perceived threat is capable of, in order to more effectively neutralize the threat.

    Why can't ushers "play" security guard? Do you have some sort of data that supports that statement, or is it just an opinion stated as fact?
    Thanks for clearing that partner, i get you point and i really do appreciate your point of view, you see i grew up on the church and i did a lot of volunteer work, sometimes Ushering, or maybe working work with the cleaning team. usher are kinda security inside the church - always walking around and helping people settle in, trust me its not an easy work. but thats all inside the church. i am talking about intercept possible threats before they get into the church while usher help people evacuate the scene.

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