US Army fields SIG M17 & M18 pistols

[EzGoingKev]

It was ECP'd on military guns before they were issued to end users, and the correction was not labeled as a "voluntary upgrade". Seems to me that is a bit different from the civilian and LEO situation.

It showed up in the military tests. This makes me ask how much shit did they ignore so they could pick this pistol?

Also, they knew there was a problem before it blew up on the internet. When it did blow up they denied it. When they could no longer lie about it they miraculously had an instant fix for it. Is this who we want supplying pistols to our soldiers?

People bashed Glock for protesting the award but after learning about all this shit I do not blame them.

Based on Sig's past history I cringed when I saw they were awarded this contract. I had thought they turned things around but that is not the case. I really wanted to see them turn things around because I have been thinking of replacing my AR's with MPX's as my go to guns. That will not be the case.

[UrHero]

Yet US, and NATO, has only issued a ball ammo for general use. Naturally, I am curious when that has changed.

Elements of SOF have used hollow point ammo for decades. GP forces have generally adhered to the provisions of the 1899 Hague Convention but have always reserved the option to change that as they saw necessary. This contact solicitation made it clear that they were prepared to move in that direction

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[YVK]

It showed up in the military tests. This makes me ask how much shit did they ignore so they could pick this pistol?

Also, they knew there was a problem before it blew up on the internet. When it did blow up they denied it. When they could no longer lie about it they miraculously had an instant fix for it. Is this who we want supplying pistols to our soldiers?

People bashed Glock for protesting the award but after learning about all this shit I do not blame them.

Based on Sig's past history I cringed when I saw they were awarded this contract. I had thought they turned things around but that is not the case. I really wanted to see them turn things around because I have been thinking of replacing my AR's with MPX's as my go to guns. That will not be the case.

You're preaching to a choir here but...
The contract was awarded in January '17 and all that PVT and IOT was done after. I don't know if the drop testing was done before the contract was awarded. I think it is reasonable to suspect that drop issues were discovered after January and then the ECP was implemented, and that may have taken some time. Ultimately, I don't know how much time passed between the discovery of this problem in Army trials and internet busting it open.
However, the Stamford, CT officer's injury was in January and SIG was informed of that. So if somebody wants to say "**** SIG", I won't object. I just don't know how Army trials discovery fit into the time frame of this cluster.

Elements of SOF have used hollow point ammo for decades. GP forces have generally adhered to the provisions of the 1899 Hague Convention but have always reserved the option to change that as they saw necessary. This contact solicitation made it clear that they were prepared to move in that direction

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Yes, I am aware of SOF use, which is why I specified "general issue". This is rather interesting although totally outside the scope of this thread. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep if our troops went JHP, in fact, I support it. That said, such unilateral decision will create a PC-driven pushback and I hope that whoever made that decision has enough gravitas to defend it.

[UrHero]

Yes, I am aware of SOF use, which is why I specified "general issue". This is rather interesting although totally outside the scope of this thread. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep if our troops went JHP, in fact, I support it. That said, such unilateral decision will create a PC-driven pushback and I hope that whoever made that decision has enough gravitas to defend it.

It's my understanding that the decision was made following an extensive legal review at the Pentagon from the Judge Advocate General for law of war.

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[Todd.K]

Is it? It looked to me like it showed up during the military testing.

Subsequent testing validated that this ECP corrected the deficiency and the pistol no longer fired when dropped.

And is resolved. Bitching about how or when SIG knew or told civilian owners is a P320 issue.

[EzGoingKev]

Subsequent testing validated that this ECP corrected the deficiency and the pistol no longer fired when dropped.

And is resolved. Bitching about how or when SIG knew or told civilian owners is a P320 issue.

It is another side of the same coin.

[opngrnd]

Interesting timing for the article: http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/02...edium=facebook

[Cagemonkey]

My friend showed me this the other night. The Author of the article has no Dog in the Fight. He makes some good, solid point. A bad Reputation or experience seems to flow you forever. Look at how long the M16 and Beretta M9 were maligned. Sig has done some stupid stuff, but it looks like that the M17/18 situation is being over blown. We'll have to wait and see.

[Arctic1]

Interesting timing for the article: http://soldiersystems.net/2018/02/02...edium=facebook

Already posted though, post #123.