Musings on Compact AR's (CQB/Home D/Truck/BoB/etc.)

[Diamondback]

First, please let me note that I'm tossing this in "General" rather than "Pistol" or "NFA" because it touches on both. Also, I'm not trying to present myself as an expert, but as a student I'm trying to distill some things I've picked up from this community into a single piece I'm writing about "General Principles of Compact-AR Building for Non-'Gun People,'" so this is more asking the experts to look over my shoulder and give feedback on what I'm doing right and what wrong. WARNING: WALL O' TEXT AHEAD!

The first question we need to ask is Expected Maximum Engagement Range. If we're looking at a range outside of about 300 yards necessitating magnified optics, fixed front sights become a liability, but for unmagnified use their simplicity as "one less moving part to fight with" becomes an advantage. Whether that fixed sight is a rail-mount on a free-float or a Front Sight Base gas-block is up to user preference, though rail-mount does allow you to place the sight closer to the muzzle using more of the total length for sight-radius.

Second becomes whether or not length is important to you. Under Federal law, 26" OAL is the boundary between "Pistol" and "Title I Other Firearm." State laws differ about what constitutes a "pistol" eligible for CCW or Vehicle Carry, though. If you're under a 26" OAL Cap like Michigan has, Upper and Lower Receivers account for 7-5/8," which reduces your available length to 18-3/8", so you'll want to stick to a Carbine-length buffer tube, ideally as short as possible. The Brownells 7-1/4" at https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...34-192451.aspx is a good fit here, leaving 11.25" for the barrel and muzzle device measured from upper receiver front-face. The LAW Tactical sidefolder, which I consider a must-have for any tight-spaces AR, takes another 1.3" bite out of that, capping combined Barrel/MD at 9.95".

If you're unfettered by an OAL Cap, your next concern becomes overall layout--if you like to use the space in front of the folded buffer to carry a spare mag as I do, your buffer/brace length becomes limited by the position of your spare mag and its carrier. As a general rule, though, the Vltor A5 system is *the* way to go unless you physically or legally can't spare the 3/4" of added length, in which case you should use either a Geissele Super 42 or a PWS H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue spring.

Distilling this down to a set of general principles:
1. Less moving parts to fight with is good when deployment speed is of the essence. Stick with a fixed front sight unless you plan to use magnified optics, which are generally more Reach Out & Touch Someone than Close Quarters.
2. Shorter barrels require different buffer systems than normal to operate reliably; depending on length requirements the Vltor A5, Geissele Super 42, or PWS H2+Sprinco Blue buffer systems are your best choices.
3. Barring personal aversion to the contrary, at least one onboard spare magazine mounted right on the gun will give you a guaranteed-ready reload if you don't have time to grab your spares.
4. If building a 10.3"/10.5," start with a barrel made to NSWC-Crane Mk 18 specs. If building a 12.5", start with the specs for the GL/SSC--it's better to start with proven military engineering and adapt it to your needs with new handguards, sights and such than try to reinvent the wheel from scratch. If this is your first build, definitely have a trusted friend who's in the AR community help you with input on selecting parts, or join the forum at M4Carbine.net and ask the SME's there for advice.
5. If there's ANY chance of a low- or no-light engagement, you will want a weapon-mounted light. A tailcap-switched light mounted near the tip of your support-hand thumb will go a long way in both giving you illumination and blinding the threat, without the complications of installing a tape-switch.
6. For speed of acquisition, a compact, lightweight laser is a helpful accessory--usually rail-mount lasers designed for pistols such as the LaserMax Uni-Max fit this pattern, so they're a much better fit than the big, boxy military-grade units.

I'm sure there's more to the puzzle than what I have here, so any jog of my memory, suggestions or refinements on what I have so far would be appreciated--bear in mind, I'm trying to write this for people who generally aren't Gun People, like your typical Word/Excel "computer user" versus a more in-depth "technical user," and the goal is kind of a "Compact AR's For Dummies" general framework while leaving latitude to adjust for individual needs and preferences. Goal is to publish next Wednesday, but I can kick the can down the road as needed until it's ready.

[GH41]

My head hurts and I didn't even read it all. Shorter is almost always better. It must be snowing in the NW.

[Diamondback]

Well, thanks for the drive-by. The site I'm writing this for is an audience who *read*, not skim and soundbite.

[voiceofreason]

#5

my experience has been more positive with red dots over lasers

the red dot is ALWAYS within your power to pick up easily from anything close to a cheekweld (looking AT the target through the optic)

searching for a moving dot in a fast moving situation has been slower for me in low light training

unless you're referring to NODs which I'm not familiar enough with to comment on

[seb5]

I actually read it all! so in no particular order.... I do understand the reasons why people do the AR pistol or new 14" Mossie Shockwave but to me they're all toys. There's nothing wrong with toys and they can be deadly but to my they're still toys and do not replace a solid plan that includes training and equipment, assuming proper mindset is already present.

If I need a 5.56 for my travels it will be a carbine. If I felt the need for a 5.56 for home defense it would be a rifle and a good set of electronic muffs. Even a pistol will hurt you in a bedroom, a 5.56 will bring you to your knees.

I've never had a folding front sight fail and I have two with fixed front sight bases but I'm not sure it matters if I was running a red dot or magnified optics. The FSP ghosts out with magnified optics anyway.

Laser's for the most part are the same to me, toys. IR and NOD's are a different animal. Lights are a must on any defensive tool regardless of what it is.

Over the years I've paid the tax and did the SBR thing a few times. It never leaves the safe anymore, see above. I've got too many AR's and if the market wasn't so soft I'd sale a few but they live in the safe. A Glock with 2 17 rounds mags and a SureFire light has been my HD of choice for many years. If I needed more I'd either be out the back door or dead so it wouldn't matter. If I felt like I needed to have an AR for self defense of my castle I would move.

Just build what you like and enjoy it, it's supposed to be fun and when it's not most of us won't do it anymore. After carrying them for a living for the last 30 years some of them are still fun, a lot are not. Good luck on your journey.

[Warp]

If I felt like I needed to have an AR for self defense of my castle I would move.

Logic, this makes absolutely none.

"If I felt like I needed to have a gun for self defense of my castle I would move" would make more sense, actually.

You recognize and admit that you might need a firearm for home defense, but write off the objectively more capable firearm because...why? If you need lethal force to stop an attacker that is in your home you need to stop them right now, why completely write off the tool (shoulder fired rifle/shotgun) that has proven itself time and again to be a superior fight stopper compared to a pistol cartridge'd pistol?

Sure, somebody might be more comfortable, competent, trained, etc with a pistol. Maybe they have reasons they prefer a pistol relating to use with one hand, ability to holster/conceal it, etc, but those are different stories

[ABNAK]

Handgun for home defense.

If I need a "long gun" it'll be a 14.5 or 16" barreled carbine.

Not a fan of shotguns for SD in general but if it was my last HD choice I'd obviously use it.



PDW's are a totally different subject, but I still wouldn't use it in the home setting (but might for up to maybe 200 meters). Handgun, like a G19 or G17 for the house. Not dogging on anyone who chooses otherwise, just my opinion.

[Firefly]

You just need a 6920.
To me, based on my experience and training, a long rifle is an offensive weapon.

Unless you plan on busting in a bunker or a dope house then you really need not concern yourself with a short rifle.

It's a toy. I used SMGs and shotguns, but my bread and butter was a handgun. No matter what you do; a 5.56 in your house is going to be LOUD. I found out the hard way how loud both a shotgun and a subgun is indoors (on separate occasions). There is nothing you can really do about it.

I'm not saying you couldn't us an AR for HD but it wouldnt be ideal.

80% of your problems can be solved with a high cap handgun and a weaponlight for HD.

If you are getting home invaded, then you have already lost initiative. I'm not saying not have it if you had to bunker in place but even then....you could do that with rifle.

Honestly, I know we got a lot of rugged individuals on this forum but if you are actively getting broke in on; my best advice is to escape until you cant. Not out of legal issues,but survival. Going up against 5 or so of the fellas can result in you getting killed if they are fighters.

I know we like to say "huh huh Jamarius Jones is a wuss! hyuk hyuk" and by and large he is ...until he isnt. If the rest of the fellas want to stay and play then you are outnumbered.

Fact.

Naw....good handgun, maybe a couple of mags, and an escape route.

Unless you have actively trained to fight and are prepared to die for your TV and Jewelry then.....no.

I dont mean like took a self defense course or took a celebrity two day training course. I mean like endless hours of house clearing, initiative reclamation, and just endless rounds down the pipe.

Because good, solid trained men die every year with full advantage of back up, body armor, and all that jazz slugging it out in a house.

Do some force on force simunitions training in a building. It gets OK Corral and Hollywood pretty quick.

Plus other variables like kids and a spouse/partner.

My best advice us to drill on escaping until you cant and drilling it into loved ones to bunker in place if that is not and option.

Making a stand is when you have no other option. I'm sure some rugged snake eater will be along to say how milquetoast that is but for every home invasion that gets turned around there are a lot more that dont.

99% of it can be handled by home owners insurance because until you've looked a slim, gaunt teen in the eye, eye ball to eyeball, who is armed and you hesitate....

he will kill you.

Because anyone willing to enter an occupied and armed structure has made up their mind

So....maybe not what you wanted to hear but there it is

[Warp]

No matter what you do; a 5.56 in your house is going to be LOUD. I found out the hard way how loud both a shotgun and a subgun is indoors (on separate occasions). There is nothing you can really do about it.

I'm not saying you couldn't us an AR for HD but it wouldnt be ideal.

A suppressed short barrel 5.56 makes a pretty damn good home defense rifle. It's quieter than an unsuppressed-pretty-much-any-other-option as well. Of course, you can suppress other things, but a suppressed short barrel AR need not be any longer (possibly shorter, even) than a standard 16" carbine, and still offers all of the advantages of the AR platform in general, which we all know about and are why we are on this site.

SBR, suppressor, Aimpoint, WML...what's not to like.

[Firefly]

Just build what you like and enjoy it, it's supposed to be fun and when it's not most of us won't do it anymore. After carrying them for a living for the last 30 years some of them are still fun, a lot are not. Good luck on your journey.

I liked this whole post, but that paragraph in particular is speaking to my soul.

OT but part of me wants to dump my pile for a VW Van and just live in the middle of nowhere.

On Topic, YES. When that shotgun went off I was right next to it and felt dizzy and sick. It was indoors. I recovered and pushed on but I attribute a good bit of tinnitus and that was when I had young, fresh 23 yo ears. Think hallway. Ugh.


Someone brought up suppressors. Yeah...no. A 556 suppressor is loud outdoors. It dont get quieter indoors.

Unless you keep peltors by the bed or are counting on auditory exclusion, you are in for a ride.