Musings on Compact AR's (CQB/Home D/Truck/BoB/etc.)

**0uTkAsT** · 12-05-17, 14:55

I'm all about hardening your home as the first line of your defense strategy, just as I am all about preaching and practicing situational awareness and deescalation techniques to avoid most problems from occurring in the first place. Second line would be a phone nearby at all times to call for help. But even with layers of security, stuff happens. You wouldn't choose to not have a fire extinguisher around just because your house has smoke detectors. Even though it might be the last line of defense, it's one of the most critical because it may be the only thing you can count on to save your butt if all else fails.

I am also a huge advocate for suppressors. No, the bad guys will not be running cans... You have no control over that. You do have control over certain things, however. Why would you choose to forego your own safety equipment based on the fact that someone else might not have it? Just because a guy might blow a red light without his seatbelt on doesn't mean that I won't wear mine all the time or wait until he's about to hit me to try to buckle up. Trying to don muffs in an emergency isn't a good plan, and would reduce your situational awareness even if you did but weren't able to turn them on.

Every gun should have a light, but it's important to point out that your weapon light should definitely not be the only flashlight on your person.

And it's cliche but you should train how you fight. I don't believe in setting up a gun specifically for HD. If you want an 8" .300BLK running subs for a HD gun but it's too expensive for you to go out and shoot every other weekend then to me it's kind of pointless. If you can afford that, more power to you. My truck gun is my training gun, which is also my HD gun, more often than not my range blaster and - guess what - it's frequently my hunting rifle too. Not by coincidence or because I don't have a lot of guns, but because I believe in practice, training, familiarity and consistency. Likewise, my carry gun is also my night stand gun which is also my training gun and blah blah blah. I have a lifted truck and sometimes I jump in my wife's little car and feel like I have to re-learn how to drive, it handles differently, brakes differently, I park it like shit because I'm not used to the size of it, etc. Likewise, you need to know your gun and support gear like the back of your hand. You need to be able to use it efficiently, in total darkness, while groggy, possibly while injured, with either hand, under stress, while performing multiple tasks. Yes, you should be able to pick any gun up in a pinch and know how to shoot it... but if you're using your gun enough, you will probably not be able to run just any gun like your gun. That's what separates shooters from collectors.

**usmcvet** · 12-05-17, 16:38

Originally Posted by jerrysimons

Read most of the thread, good convo. Bunch of good thoughts and mindset checks. I will say this as someone who loves to obsess over ARs and "perfect" builds for HD or whatever. There is more consideration to a HD scenario than terminal ballistics. One handed operation or at least one handed, gun-up orientation is very important to me. Opening doors, baby gates, carrying a scared child from one from to the next for barricading, opening a window and dropping the 2 story fire escape ladder, holding a cell phone, etc. So basically a pistol is the immediate HD gun, a Glock 19 with X300 (his and hers). Then an ultralightwieght suppressed, SBR AR with 2pt sling is secondary. Ideally, sling the SBR and grab pistol, get kids safe involving movement and dexterity. Either hunker down to blast a clown with AR or escape.

His and hers matching guns is an Outstanding idea! So is the discussion about slings and lights. "If you can't sling it. Don't bring it."

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**Bogart** · 12-08-17, 12:26

Not to further derail the thread, but if I recall properly I saw someone briefly mention pistol caliber weapons during the rifle/shotgun for HD debate. Any one have any further thoughts or first hand experience with a subgun (or similar type weapon, Scorpion EVO, MPX-K, Angstadt UDP9, etc) for this role? I’ve been entertaining this idea for me personally for a variety of reasons but was curious if anyone else with more experience could weigh in.

**Outlander Systems** · 12-08-17, 12:53

I've chased that dragon and got burned.

PCCs/PDWs are a waste of time. None of the advantages of a pistol, with all of the disadvantages in terms of
terminal ballistics. I'd take a shorty 5.56 over any shoulder-fired pistol-cartidge shooter, all day long, even on the moon.

Originally Posted by Bogart

Not to further derail the thread, but if I recall properly I saw someone briefly mention pistol caliber weapons during the rifle/shotgun for HD debate. Any one have any further thoughts or first hand experience with a subgun (or similar type weapon, Scorpion EVO, MPX-K, Angstadt UDP9, etc) for this role? I’ve been entertaining this idea for me personally for a variety of reasons but was curious if anyone else with more experience could weigh in.

**RHINOWSO** · 12-08-17, 13:26

A PCC is better than a pistol IMO, but you're better to just use a 5.56 rifle for superior weapon effects.

Only situation I like a PCC is one that is legally a pistol for use outside the home. A folding brace MPX-K / Scorpion can easily fit in a typical backpack and be loaded. Whereas an AR won't and uber short ARs (<10.5") I think effectiveness / function / ballistics really suffer.

**Bogart** · 12-08-17, 14:10

I appreciate the responses guys. What got me thinking about this was particularly the discussion about noise and hearing loss inside of a structure (i.e. my house).

While I know a pistol cartridge would still be loud I, in my inexperience, have been looking at the pros being basically more maneuverable than an SBR/AR pistol equipped with a practical barrel length (10.3 or longer, I wouldn’t go shorter for 5.56), lighter weight (gun up with one hand if needed), and greater capacity than a handgun (30+ rounds of 124 +P Gold Dots against most likely unarmored assailants). Plus the ability to sling it sans clothes, since I cant holster a pistol in boxers at 3am.

But again, I love hearing input from more experienced people than myself. I may be looking at this all wrong.

(Mods if this is derailing too much I can start a new thread in the AR pistol forum.)

**grizzlyblake** · 12-08-17, 14:32

Several people, myself included, have posted that their EDC pistol is their home defense pistol as well. I think that's a solid decision because of economics, training familiarity, etc. but I could also see the value in a hot rod HD only pistol. I would be inclined to build one before a PCC or something like that.

I think a G17 or 19 milled for an RMR with a few of the new Magpul 27rd Glock mags and a WML would be about the epitome of in-house defense for an average American home. One of those kydex trigger guards with the lanyard that could be silently removed would be excellent for keeping it ready to go on the nightstand. In fact, now I want one.

**RHINOWSO** · 12-08-17, 16:08

My EDC G19 is my HD pistol - because while I'm awake, it's always conveniently with me - at night it is close by. It has an XC1 WML which is plenty sufficient for my home and a handheld Surefire to back it up. Not into RMR stuff yet and don't feel the need to have a race EDC gun.

When it comes to slings, I'm not a fan of them on a HD rifle - should you get caught in a scuffle with someone, it could become a choking hazard. For stability I can shoot well enough <10m without one. Personal choice. If it's for pest control outside the house (hogs), I have a QD sling that I can put on quickly.