Bitcoin & cryptocurrency

[jpmuscle]

There is nothing real of any currency. This one just happens to have a non-centralized digital ledger unlike most other currencies.

Do you guys throw midgets around pound quaaludes too?


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[sandsunsurf]

I lost about .2 BTC between Cryptsy and Vaultofsatoshi shutting down. I got the notices from vault of satoshi but didn’t act because I had the equivalent of $70 in Doge, LTC and BTC. I have PPC, LTC, BTC and Doge in wallets on my computer but no passwords for them. Just last night, I managed to crack my own password for my LTC wallet and was able to transfer 5 LTC to Coinbase. With the current prices, that’s almost 4x my original investment. But I sure wish I could get my BTC back from the online places. Definitely the lesson learned was to print paper wallets in duplicate and write on them what they are, don’t store cryptocurrency online or even on your own computer if you’re going to forget your password...

[thepatriot2705]

This is the truth. Gold, just a shiny metal. USD is meaningful because it has the force of the US military behind it and we all believe the govt when they say that it has value, let the deficit keep rising indefinetly and we will see. But, you know I am not all doom and gloom, as long as everybody keeps believing it is all going to be ok, it will.

I missed the boat on bitcoin, and sadly I can't say it wasn't suggested to me early enough. Could have gotten in in 2014 and made millions by now. Oh well, coulda-woulda-shoulda. What is bitcoins' value? It is the innovation of blockchain. But I see what the skeptics are saying, blockchain is not exclusive to bitcoin, even as I find myself believing in the concept of bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Is it a bubble? probably, but if you were smart you could have made good money off it though. I generally feel like it is too late and too risky now at 16k per coin. Can't afford to risk amounts that could result in meaningful gains at that buy in price.

Also don't forget your taxes cryptorichies!

Gold is not just a shiny metal. Yes it may have had value historical as it was used in jewelry but now it has industrial applications. It is used in all sorts of electronics. Gold has intrinsic value. Fiat currencies and cryptos do not.

Bitcoin has an anonymous founder. It's a scam. I don't know what the end game is but it defies all financial rationality

[thepatriot2705]

Another aspect of Bitcoin is that the exchanges are rarely in sync. And at times can have very large variances between them.

There was a pretty big slide on Friday as reflected in some exchanges but not in others. 20% by some reports.

Coinbase is issuing cautions. And stressing that they are enforcing withdrawal limits. And specifically, that you could be impacted by withdrawal limits should it start the crash.

Unlike a stock share where you own something, that should pay dividends, etc, just keep in mind that you are speculating on relative value of currency. And as such are entirely dependent on exchanges to transition that value in and out.

Large valuation swings are by definition volatility. And Bitcoin has been extremely volatile throughout its life. This is not the only run up, although it's the largest for sure.

So you have to ask yourself what has changed that makes a Bitcoin worth 5 x what it was previously? Relative to other currencies?

Because it's all relative to other currencies. Did people invest in dollars when it became stronger relative to the euro? Or the Euro relative to the pound? Only short-term currency speculators.

Even gold is not an investment. It's a way to hold wealth or value. You can say it's a hedge against inflation. There's an old saying that an ounce of gold has been stable to the value of a tailored Savile row suit for two to three hundred years. It buys what it buys. And currencies go up or down around it, mostly impacted Lately by how much they run the printing press.

Gold is an investment though. Has immense use and value in advanced technology. Gold is a commodity and has been throughout human history.

[jerrysimons]

Gold is not just a shiny metal. Yes it may have had value historical as it was used in jewelry but now it has industrial applications. It is used in all sorts of electronics. Gold has intrinsic value. Fiat currencies and cryptos do not.

Bitcoin has an anonymous founder. It's a scam. I don't know what the end game is but it defies all financial rationality

that is true, and pallets of $100 dollar bills are good for burning to stay warm too. Intrinsic value is a technological application or a social function. In the digital scape of our current world bitcoin and its underlying innovation, cryptographic blockchain, has value when applied.

Is it digital? yes, so is a bank account full of USD.

Bitcoin as a scam? Meh, wall-street is a scam, It's all a scam and yet it works out - till it doesn't - but for now its working.

[themonk]

If some here would like to have a better understanding of the purpose, technology, implications and future of bitcoin I would highly recommend Kevin Rose's podcast from a few months back with Andreas Antonopoulos - https://www.kevinrose.com/single-pos...s-antonopolous.

[pinzgauer]

Bitcoin's real value was in providing a digital method to transact value transfers securely and verifiably. Something our banking system sorely needs. Anyone who has dealt with Certified funds, etc well knows this. Same for wire transfers, etc.

Any value (or not) was relative to other currencies. And to establish an initial value, it required "work" to produce one. But that's just to get it started. All along that value (based on relative scarcity) was/is expected to change. Once no more can be produced, scarcity kicks in and value moves relative to other currency, etc.

The problem is some folks recently made the intellectual leap that the total bitcoin valuation will equal the dollar valuation. Which has driven the huge run-up. That along with it becoming the next hot thing.

So you look who is making that point. It's the winkle brothers, and guess what, they are pushing an exchange. Now they also put $11M into bitcoin, and now on paper are over a billion. So they may laugh all the way to the bank, or already have.

The problem with all this stuff... If it's a currency (most argue it is), then you can't try to conflate them.
Could you ever see anyone trying to say Euro will go up as it's ultimate value should be equal to the $$ in circulation? Or pounds sterling, or Swiss Francs, or whatever?

Someone already mentioned that in this thread. And that's a bogus leap.

So when thinking about bitcoin, try replacing the word bitcoin with another currency. If you can't see yourself doing that action, then you need to think hard about bitcoin. Ex:

"I'm sure glad I invested in dollars as I think it's going up up up!"
"I'm moving out of swiss francs and into Mexican Peso's"

These are currency speculations on future value relative to another currency.

Saying "I moved my investment into gold/chf/btc to protect against inflation of the Euro/dollar/whatever" is a valid thing.

So gambling the btc will inflate less than other currencies would be OK, except normally you move into things with stable values. Not wildly fluctuating valuations.

If it is a currency, it's only any good if you can exchange it for stuff. Which used to be not well known, but workable. But now, due to the crazy valuation swings (+- 20% or more inside of a a week), companies are stopping taking bitcoin. That and high transaction fees. This may change. But if it's not liquid, then is the currency sound? Remember, most bitcoin exchanges now have very strict limits on what you can cash out now.

Blockchain is critical tech. Bitcoin may or may not stick, same for its competitors. But it's core technology will resurface, and hopefully solve some problems for us.

All the above said: Anyone buy some futures today? Or short some Bitcoin?

[pinzgauer]

Gold is an investment though. Has immense use and value in advanced technology. Gold is a commodity and has been throughout human history.

Gold has value, no doubt. And uses, no doubt. It's tangible.

Is it an investment? only relative to currencies you buy it with.

It pays no interest. No dividend. Does not split.

Bury an ounce of gold, and in 50 years you'll have... an ounce of gold.

Any value change is only relative to currencies and whatever the effect of scarcity from the commodity aspect. If you are betting there will be less of it, then it's value will go up. Yet they mine 2500 metric tons each year. That's 88.1 million ounces. Some is lost each year, but not near what they mine.

You can invest in gold futures- speculating on it's future value relative to a currency. But you can't invest in gold bars. You can use it to hold your wealth though. That's in a strict interpretation of investment- purchasing something that you are expecting to produce a profit, dividend, or other result.

But if you are really talking about value relative to inflationary currency, then we can squint can call it an investment as you expect to get more dollars for it in the future then you paid for it. But then again, do those future dollars buy any more? The "ounce of gold buys a tailored Saville row suit" rule says no.

So I've gone a different direction... was thinking about what do I need if currency inflates/collapses. Is it gold? Nah, coins are to high value to buy what I would want to barter for. So maybe Silver? Then I realized: Any situation when the banking/dollar system is defunct, ammo in common calibers would be a better barter unit than silver or gold.

- It's in units that would be useful ("I'll give you a box of 5.56 for a gallon of dried peas")
- It has utility on it's own that justifies carrying the weight.
- It's easily verifiable, and determining if it's counterfeit likely not to be an issue.
- It's likely to cost more in the future than it does now (on average)

So everytime I get the spidey sense that I need to be picking up some gold/silver coins, I buy a case of 5.56 and 9mm.

I even keep some steel case, as if we ever got into book of eli days, steel case will be worth almost as much as normal. Yet it's far cheaper (at times) now to buy.

Yep, crazy, probably.

[zombiescometh]

Made a small investment in bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin with coinbase.

If interested in using coinbase they do have a referral program.

https://www.coinbase.com/join/5a2d59c80ac6f100dc3b3c4b

If you use the link above and buy $100 worth of currency we each receive $10 worth of Bitcoin.

To the mods if that's not allowed let me know and i will edit it out.

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[jerrysimons]

Bitcoin's real value was in providing a digital method to transact value transfers securely and verifiably. Something our banking system sorely needs. Anyone who has dealt with Certified funds, etc well knows this. Same for wire transfers, etc.

Any value (or not) was relative to other currencies. And to establish an initial value, it required "work" to produce one. But that's just to get it started. All along that value (based on relative scarcity) was/is expected to change. Once no more can be produced, scarcity kicks in and value moves relative to other currency, etc.

The problem is some folks recently made the intellectual leap that the total bitcoin valuation will equal the dollar valuation. Which has driven the huge run-up. That along with it becoming the next hot thing.

So you look who is making that point. It's the winkle brothers, and guess what, they are pushing an exchange. Now they also put $11M into bitcoin, and now on paper are over a billion. So they may laugh all the way to the bank, or already have.

The problem with all this stuff... If it's a currency (most argue it is), then you can't try to conflate them.
Could you ever see anyone trying to say Euro will go up as it's ultimate value should be equal to the $$ in circulation? Or pounds sterling, or Swiss Francs, or whatever?

Someone already mentioned that in this thread. And that's a bogus leap.

So when thinking about bitcoin, try replacing the word bitcoin with another currency. If you can't see yourself doing that action, then you need to think hard about bitcoin. Ex:

"I'm sure glad I invested in dollars as I think it's going up up up!"
"I'm moving out of swiss francs and into Mexican Peso's"

These are currency speculations on future value relative to another currency.

Saying "I moved my investment into gold/chf/btc to protect against inflation of the Euro/dollar/whatever" is a valid thing.

So gambling the btc will inflate less than other currencies would be OK, except normally you move into things with stable values. Not wildly fluctuating valuations.

If it is a currency, it's only any good if you can exchange it for stuff. Which used to be not well known, but workable. But now, due to the crazy valuation swings (+- 20% or more inside of a a week), companies are stopping taking bitcoin. That and high transaction fees. This may change. But if it's not liquid, then is the currency sound? Remember, most bitcoin exchanges now have very strict limits on what you can cash out now.

Blockchain is critical tech. Bitcoin may or may not stick, same for its competitors. But it's core technology will resurface, and hopefully solve some problems for us.

All the above said: Anyone buy some futures today? Or short some Bitcoin?

Conceptually, among its proponents, Bitcoins utility has pivoted to a "store of value" described like a Gold 2.0. Its function as a currency will be limited until its market price stableizes and the processing network speeds up a lot, or is surpassed by another cryptocurrency most likely.