Daniel Shaver shooting vid (NSFW)

[WillBrink]

Considering for example recent Vegas event, etc, you get a call of a man pointing a gun out a window in a hotel, and that's going to a pucker factor 11 call. I watched that vid right at the point of shooting probably 10 times and it's a very tough call to make when you look at the overall picture there. He was told the very possible consequences of reaching behind his back, and made no sense why he did it while crawling.

Now, why not have the guy stay where he is, in the position the LEO instruct (face down, crossed legs, hands forward, etc) and close the distance as one LEO secures him and the other keeps him under observation at all times? What's the SOP for that with that PD? Maybe they wanted to get him away from the door opening to reduce the chances of someone popping out? I'd like to here the LE POV on that.

As ugly as that is to watch, all the factors involved, I can see how it would be viewed as a justified shooting, but from my non professional POV, a very thin line there...the officer was charged and fired, but was found not guilty. What say you?

"Body cam footage has been released showing the fatal police shooting of 26-year-old Daniel Shaver. Police were called to a hotel in Mesa, Arizona, in 2016 after a report of someone pointing a gun out of a window. Shaver, however, was unarmed. The officer, Philip Brailsford, was found not guilty of 2nd degree murder."

[Nowski87]

From what I can see in that video I don’t see a justified shoot there. There is no weapon present and unless they found one I’m not sure what his crime is. Also the officers commands were a little counter intuitive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuckman]

I never like to Monday-morning (or in this case Friday-afternoon) quarterback. That said, maybe second degree murder was overreach. But if I was an attorney, based on that video, I would talk to the family about a civil suit.

I dunno....I don't know all the details, so....

[Turnkey11]

I will never comply to a "cross your legs, hands in the air, and crawl" command, ever. That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard, and not how I was trained or how I trained anyone afterwards. I hope people see this and become completely non-compliant once they are on the ground with their arms out to their sides, palms up, and feet crossed. Do not get up, do not move, he says move, tell him to come get you and wait. Nobody should die the way that kid did in that video.

[chuckman]

I will never comply to a "cross your legs, hands in the air, and crawl" command, ever. That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard, and not how I was trained or how I trained anyone afterwards. I hope people see this and become completely non-compliant once they are on the ground with their arms out to their sides, palms up, and feet crossed. Do not get up, do not move, he says move, tell him to come get you and wait. Nobody should die the way that kid did in that video.

It was a bizarre, macabre game of Simon says, with a pre-determined outcome.

[tb-av]

It was a bizarre, macabre game of Simon says, ...

It actually looks worse, if that could possibly be, with the sound off.

It is -immediately- apparent that he wanted to comply and was basically in no condition to be following those orders under the duress of a death penalty. ... and they had a visual baseline with the girl. She did ok, yet the guy never had his physical wits about him.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I will never comply to a "cross your legs, hands in the air, and crawl" command, ever. That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard, and not how I was trained or how I trained anyone afterwards. I hope people see this and become completely non-compliant once they are on the ground with their arms out to their sides, palms up, and feet crossed. Do not get up, do not move, he says move, tell him to come get you and wait. Nobody should die the way that kid did in that video.

This is the first video that I've ever seen this technique used. I've worked for two agencies, learned three different DTAC disciplines, and have never seen anything other than lay on your belly, put your arms out to your sides like you are flying, cross ankles (or spread legs), palms up to the sky, look away from me, do not move. Even in felony stops or an active burg in a dark hallway where I need you to come to me, you will walk backwards with hands in the air until I tell you to stop, then go to your knees while I cuff and search.

To a certain extent I agree with you, if the orders become so FUBAR'd that you cant follow them, just prone with hands deliberately out to your sides and stay put. You may get bean-bagged, but you probably wont get shot.

[Turnkey11]

This is the first video that I've ever seen this technique used. I've worked for two agencies, learned three different DTAC disciplines, and have never seen anything other than lay on your belly, put your arms out to your sides like you are flying, cross ankles (or spread legs), palms up to the sky, look away from me, do not move. Even in felony stops or an active burg in a dark hallway where I need you to come to me, you will walk backwards with hands in the air until I tell you to stop, then go to your knees while I cuff and search.

To a certain extent I agree with you, if the orders become so FUBAR'd that you cant follow them, just prone with hands deliberately out to your sides and stay put. You may get bean-bagged, but you probably wont get shot.

Thats exactly what I was going to say; if you want him to come to you, walk him backwards towards you to the point that you feel it is safe to go hands on. Then you instruct him to get on his knees, lay down, extend his arms out to his sides, palms up, and cross his feet. His head should be facing away from you, you approach from the feet. If you need to drag him out of the hallway you can do so once hes on the ground, or if you are working with ballistic shields, move then up to pin the arms and provide cover for your hands on guy conducting the search. Id much rather catch a couple boots, knees, or get rough handled a bit for telling the officer to f--k off than get smoked for losing my balance doing a sobriety check on my knees.

[WillBrink]

From what I can see in that video I don’t see a justified shoot there. There is no weapon present and unless they found one I’m not sure what his crime is. Also the officers commands were a little counter intuitive.

Perhaps look into a the case a bit would be my suggestion and or re read my comments. Apparently he'd been waving a gun (which turned out to be an air rifle) out the window of the hotel, which why they were called. Under the influence (he was) and scared chitless, I can see for sure how the LEOs commands may have confused him (hence some of my other comments/Q on SOPs, etc) but why would he reach behind his back? Especially considering what they'd told him prior? We will never know but that LEO was clearly taking no chances to find out.

[jpmuscle]

From what I can see in that video I don’t see a justified shoot there. There is no weapon present and unless they found one I’m not sure what his crime is. Also the officers commands were a little counter intuitive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FWIW a weapon need not be present necessarily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk