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Thread: Barrel Manufacturing Process Cost

  1. #1
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    Barrel Manufacturing Process Cost

    Hey guys,

    I saw that BA is doing a run of phosphate finished CHF barrels -a big departure from their usual offerings.

    I was wondering how more intensive and therefore expensive CHF is compared to (what I assume is standard) turning the barrel?

    I have been pretty well convinced CHF is better, but don't understand the higher associated costs -not to mention the balance of value and performance.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Hulk,

    I believe there have been some very detailed and extensive tests done between CHF barrels and non-CHF barrels, chrome-lined vs non-chrome lined. Did you happen to try to find any of those threads? I’ve got an uber crappy internet connection but can try to find some links.


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    I think he is asking directly about cost, not longevity of parts life. So I will stay on that topic.


    I believe it probably just all has to do with the initial cost of tooling, maintaining the tooling, and paying the employees who build and maintain all the machinery and barrels.
    Those are the biggest factors that I am personally aware of.
    Remember that the Communists have been putting out cold hammer-forged barrels manufactured to a very high standard for a very low cost for many many decades. Not just the communists either, most of the world has.

    You also have to consider the profit margins, and the reasons why people are making these certain types of barrels.

    Based on purely my speculation from various market values I have seen..
    I'm pretty sure that it's all moot points, and if I had to guess I would guess that overall the cost is pretty similar for each process IF the manufacture is building large batches of barrels compared to small batches. Buying in bulk for better deals is also relative to The manufacturing industry. The circumstances regarding the manufacture are probably bigger factors of cost than the actual tooling its self. Companies like Noveske aren't selling millions of barrels, instead they are selling very small quantities and focusing on quality control which increases the cost even higher. Where on the other hand you have some companies like FN who manufacture very large quantities of cold hammer-forged barrels and sell them for very low cost( I can buy FN barrels for the Same and probably less than a colt barrel ).

    Cold hammer-forged barrels aren't really an extremely hot item either, I would guess that the general shooting public doesn't even know the difference between barrel manufacturing techniques. Guys on here who demand certain quality like the general public of this forum are a small minority of gun owners/buyers in the usa.

  4. #4
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    The correct phrase would be- they are having them made for them. My guess is that it is FN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkstr8 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I saw that BA is doing a run of phosphate finished CHF barrels -a big departure from their usual offerings.

    I was wondering how more intensive and therefore expensive CHF is compared to (what I assume is standard) turning the barrel?

    I have been pretty well convinced CHF is better, but don't understand the higher associated costs -not to mention the balance of value and performance.

    Thanks.



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  5. #5
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    The original goal of hammer forging was never to make a better barrel. It was to make them faster with less skilled labor. Successful marketing is the reason we pay more.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    The original goal of hammer forging was never to make a better barrel. It was to make them faster with less skilled labor.
    This was technically true in WW2 times.

    As to being snake oil, DOD armorer's found different. The idea that CHF is solely only a cost savings measure is silly. I think you could say it makes an arguable better barrel at similar price to button rifling. Especially when the cost of the equipment and initial setup for each barrel is factored in.

    Likewise, while it reduces the quantity of skilled labor required in terms of the number of people, It does not reduce the need for skilled labor. It's not just trained monkeys loading blanks into a hopper. At the same time, it does remove quite a bit of variability in individual barrel manufacture.

  7. #7
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    But don't take my word for it, read what the US Defense testing found for 50 cal & 30 cal machine guns, M-14's, M-16's, and mini-guns:

    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA021752
    "Improved grain structure, increased toughness, better corrosion resistance, and finer surface finish result from the process. In general, the geometry and surface finish of the mandrel are reflected precisely in the barrel bore. Bore finishes of 8 micro inch (arithmetric average) or less are possible."

    "Bore variation is drastically reduced and straightness increased. Variations of less than .00015 inches are common."

    And an update, showing further improved qualities un-reported in the 1975 report.
    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a136159.pdf

    "One should not overlook the benefits of improved fatigue life and/or fracture toughness, which may lead to longer service life, reduced tube weight, and/or increased propelling pressure with all of its consequences."

    There is a reason the US military specifies CHF process for it's machine gun barrels, and other militaries specify it for their weapons. Colt chose to stick with button rifling, and you can argue their barrels have not suffered.

    My read is that with premium barrels cut rifling still is superior, and some button rifling with lapping can be as well. Especially for stainless.*

    But for rack grade, I'll take a properly made CHF any day of the week.

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    Who is BA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkstr8 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I saw that BA is doing a run of phosphate finished CHF barrels -a big departure from their usual offerings.



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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomyc View Post
    Who is BA?






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  10. #10
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    Interesting option, I got to say I’d like to have one of those.

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