An adventure into reducing muzzle climb and felt recoil

[Caeser25]

If you can find one, the older open tine PWS TRIAD is the answer. The white sound defense FOSSA 556 is a little better at flash suppression but not as good at recoil reduction. Muzzle climb depends on the balance or weight of your rifle for it. On a heavier gun it shoots flat. On a lighter gun it's a little jumpy.

Edit: Both are three tine flash suppressors first and foremost, and neither one pings. Everyone seems to overlook both of them. Primary Arms had the PWS TRIAD on sale for $35 not too long ago and I picked up a second. The Fossa is a little spendy but with nearly no reviews I took a chance. I'd buy the PWS over the Fossa every time. I too had the same concerns when I first bought my PVS14 and moved from breaks to these.

http://www.whitesounddefense.com/fossa-556/

https://www.google.com/search?q=pws+...3C5XNq6ldBURM:

[1168]

I have found that a heavy-ish barrel (such as Noveske Afghan or M4A1) with a2 fh and appropriate buffer weight works well.

Brakes and comps suck. I’ve tried afew and found them to be loud, flashy, and some seem to almost pull the gun forward, which feels off-putting. I always choose a A2 or inexpensive substitute. Low light shooting is my thing. A2X and YHM phantom come to mind. Unless shooting suppressed.

Add pretty much any suppressor and splits shrink. Not sure if it is due to mass or because of suppressor voodoo. Probably both. But transition times grow a bit. And the gun starts to suck to carry around.

If I were setting up a rifle with muzzle rise being an important factor, I would choose a heavy-ish 14.5 middy with an A2X or suppressor, and use a BRT gas port thingy to regulate it for my chosen ammo and muzzle device and an A5H0 or Carbine buffer.

[vicious_cb]

I have found that a heavy-ish barrel (such as Noveske Afghan or M4A1) with a2 fh and appropriate buffer weight works well.

Brakes and comps suck. I’ve tried afew and found them to be loud, flashy, and some seem to almost pull the gun forward, which feels off-putting. I always choose a A2 or inexpensive substitute. Low light shooting is my thing. A2X and YHM phantom come to mind. Unless shooting suppressed.

Add pretty much any suppressor and splits shrink. Not sure if it is due to mass or because of suppressor voodoo. Probably both. But transition times grow a bit. And the gun starts to suck to carry around.

If I were setting up a rifle with muzzle rise being an important factor, I would choose a heavy-ish 14.5 middy with an A2X or suppressor, and use a BRT gas port thingy to regulate it for my chosen ammo and muzzle device and an A5H0 or Carbine buffer.

This. Its the answer you dont want but its weight mostly meat all up in the front of the barrel. Something like a Centurion Gov't profile barrel that makes the rifle hang heavier up front but not adding alot to the total weight of the gun is ideal.

Also, muzzle brakes without suppressors attached are stupid.

[Duffy]

Our 6315 (based on A2 TDP, with Stoner 63 LMG shaped ports) has flash suppression ability equal to that of the A2, 25% better muzzle rise compensation performance, without the noise, concussion, and flash that invariably accompany a brake or comp.

25% is a modest gain, and can be easily felt especially in rapid or auto fire. We made the 3 and 9 o'clock ports 30% smaller than the upward facing ports. Less gas is vented through the smaller ports, more through the upper facing ports.

Think of it as a super A2

[opngrnd]

Our 6315 (based on A2 TDP, with Stoner 63 LMG shaped ports) has flash suppression ability equal to that of the A2, 25% better muzzle rise compensation performance, without the noise, concussion, and flash that invariably accompany a brake or comp.

25% is a modest gain, and can be easily felt especially in rapid or auto fire. We made the 3 and 9 o'clock ports 30% smaller than the upward facing ports. Less gas is vented through the smaller ports, more through the upper facing ports.

Think of it as a super A2

I've been very happy with the 6315. Not trying tip sound like a shill, but both of my 16" guns now have one. It's not going to be super noticable by itself, but as an addition to a properly weighted and buffered rifle, it makes for a sweet combo.

[Duffy]

For a muzzle device to have very noticeable down force or reduction in recoil, it invariably produces unwanted side effects. The hybrid muzzle devices manage to mitigate flash and concussion well. Compared to an A2, or 6315 for that matter, they do a better job at keeping the muzzle down, but with more flash and concussion, but not as much as a pure brake or comp.

It's an excellent statement re: buffer and weight. Not to be all zen like, the simple idea of balance appears to escape many designers. A single device tasked with missions it has a hard time achieving alone could describe many designs. If it manages to do so, it produces enough unintended consequences to diminish what it accomplishes. A well balanced AR may not be the best in anything, it does everything well while leaving no drawbacks to haunt its owner. To be best in one aspect is pointless in my opinion, except as an engineering exercise to see how far it can be pushed.

[markm]

The solution is simple. BCM 14.5 middy with a hand guard of your choice. Add an H buffer.

This is simply the smoothest/fastest shooting AR you can get without some crazy brakes/mods.

[1168]

The solution is simple. BCM 14.5 middy with a hand guard of your choice. Add an H buffer.

This is simply the smoothest/fastest shooting AR you can get without some crazy brakes/mods.

I took a similar path with my go-to gun. Noveske 14.5 middy barrel, DD RIS II. Cheap flash hider. Fast and smooth with a H3 buffer, regular Colt spring.

Edit: H2 buffer, not H3 in this gun.

[markm]

I took a similar path with my go-to gun. Noveske 14.5 middy barrel, DD RIS II. Cheap flash hider. Fast and smooth with a H3 buffer, regular Colt spring.

Not sure what port Noveske runs... But the BCM is ported down to like .076" or something.... that makes it super smooth. And with an H buffer, the recoil pop is low.

[1168]

Not sure what port Noveske runs... But the BCM is ported down to like .076" or something.... that makes it super smooth. And with an H buffer, the recoil pop is low.

Since I’m using an H3 now (used to use H2; erosion, perhaps?) with true 5.56, I have no doubt the BCM port is smaller. I’ve had it since middy’s were a pretty new thing.

Not saying it would be better than BCM. Just giving another example of a path away from his 10.5, that has worked out well.

Edit: Gun uses an H2, not H3. Would have started life with an H1.