When did people start hating high quality Americans?

[Firefly]

I noticed also, the detractors went straight to character critiquing. A lot of great people are assholes, but only to those who deserve it, imo. Having a spine makes you an asshole these days.

When someone cant take mentoring and constructive critisism, the mentor becomes “an asshole” in their mind. I worked for one of those guys (demanding mentor) Best boss I ever had. I’ve seen him railroad people though, and they earned every bit. Honestly, i just dont pay mind to the complaining anymore.

Being an asshole isnt a bad thing. Being a feckless asshole is though.

Like, I knew a guy who was a total asshole but knew his stuff. Didnt always like him but, per your sentiment; didn't railroad people or be petty. The only direction for him was forward and once shit got handled (hard brick shit), he'd take folks off as individuals and sincerely thank them for their effort.

That is Constructive Assholery.

Feckless Assholery is the guy who nitpicks, singles folks out, keeps enemy lists, plays little fck fck games and abuses their position and blames everybody else when nothing gets done.

Somebody has to be the lightning rod and somebody has to be the "good cop".

If people arent bitching AND working then you have failed. If people dont come to you with their problems; then you have failed.

And sometimes it takes...a real DICK to be in charge. All is forgiven if one gets results and doesnt hold a grudge.

Barring that there is always the Woodline or the Locker Room....

[Coal Dragger]

I was in a very high quality density environment in the military.
Guys that stood out even in that environment were sought after, groomed, etc.
Say, everyone was a pilot of jet aircraft. Some were fighter pilots. And in a group when you talked about guys that were a SEAL before they were a pilot and later became a trauma surgeon, or became an astronaut you spoke of them as being a top notch, great dude.

I am retired from the military and in a field with highly educated and highly paid people.
So, to make an example like the above, let’s say everyone is a large passenger airline pilot. But when you mention someone like that, they assume those people must be assholes, or only good on paper.

I knew some people that played serious level college ball, truly 99 percentile athletes. But not the 99.99th percentile ones that went to a pro career. They never talked smack about the true pro level guys, unless it was something true. But it did not occur to them to act like those guys were not really that good.

What is the shift in society that made that switch?

Well I’m only 39 years old, so my generational perspective is mostly having observed the WWII generation, baby boomers, gen X (my cohorts), and millennials. I realize there is a group in there born before the boomers but after the WWII era generation, but my grandparents were all WWII generation so that is the generation I interacted with most where older people were concerned. I’m giving this in the way of background on the observer (me).

I never observed my grandparents display jealousy towards people who achieved a lot in life or who were truly exceptional. They seemed to genuinely revere many of them, kind of in a hero worship way. Please note that not a lot of time was spent in my formative years engaged in conversations about my grandparents peers who were exceptional. So I cannot rule out that my grandparents thought some of them were only good on paper, or were just lucky, etc. They kept those sentiments to themselves though.

My parents are baby boomers. I have more experience here because of exposure to more of them. Definitely observed a lot of the behaviors you are describing with baby boomers. Not necessarily my parents, although there were and are instances. Perhaps this phenomenon of open criticism, even making up criticism became more acceptable with baby boomers?

My own generation is chock full of people like you describe. Same for millennials.

So if we’re looking for a chronology here, I submit my very inaccurate, anecdotal data points.

I suspect that the resentment, jealousy, envy, and desire to denigrate high achievers is as old as time. Maybe older generations were better at keeping those thoughts to themselves because they had better manners. So their outward appearances and statements indicated a lack of the behavior you are describing even though the underlying mental foundation was still there.

There’s also probably a confirmation bias issue with you Ramairthree. By your own admission you spent a great deal of your adult life among very high achieving individuals in the military. Guys who were physically and mentally gifted in a lot of cases. Generally speaking whiny little baby dicks don’t make it into units you were with. So you didn’t have to be exposed to them as much.

Now you’re in the civilian sector and find that even highly educated people that make lots of money, don’t always appreciate the achievements of the 99.99 percentile who are gifted. Welcome to the world most of us already inhabit; where wasting time running people down who are better, bickering, and bitching are easier paths than admiring the 99.99 percentile achievers and striving to be like them.

[ramairthree]

Yeah,
I guess I can’t totally set apart what is modern society changes vs what is civilian compared to military.

I think it is part both.

We live in a society that basically tells everyone to get educated, rich, successfully, and have everything they want and buy!buy!buy! But when all is said and done, and luck/fortunate circumstances are taken out of the equation, the vast majority of people are not mentally, physically, and psychologically equipped for the big leagues. So resentment, etc. set in. Previously, it was pretty clear in society the flag turner on the road project was not going to have the pay and lifestyle of the skilled equipment operator, the engineer in charge of the project, or the lucky guy who inherited the land the project was being put in on.

The military offers limited advancement compared to civilian. An infantry officer comes ROTC, blows Ranger School, is mechanized, gets a basic training company command, etc. etc. in four years he is a captain, ten a major, fifteen or so a LTC, around 20 a Colonel. Another Infantry Officer comes out of West Point, has a platoon in the 82, a tour in Ranger Regt, becomes SF or an Operator, gets competive commands, etc. at best he might be a Colonel Two years before the other guy, but maybe the same. Maybe in that environment recognition by peers is easier to give.

[Coal Dragger]

Then you have the guys who are shooting stars and actually make flag rank after a competitive career.

[Firefly]

Ramairthree,

I'm sorry man, but you just wont ever be a Roman Centurion.

[Safetyhit]

Jealousy, plain and simple. People regret that they were not able to accomplish all they wanted to in life, or that they do not have the intelligence or physical ability to ever do it even if they tried. It sucks feeling inferior, especially in America where everyone wants to be bigger and better.

Sounds about right. Certainly not always the case but close enough.