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Thread: Lesson about Money and AR's

  1. #11
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    if saving money is number one, the easiest/surest/fastest way is not to build it yourself, but instead buy whole rifles, or upper/lower combos. i've yet to build an AR as cheap.

  2. #12
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    I'm not buying what you're selling.....

    In both economies, I would buy what will get the job done. You have to define the job first. I find many gun buyers find the gun and look for the job second. You can build a $400 AR. what is it good for? Range work? Maybe. Accuracy? If you are lucky. Home defense? Maybe. Training? Maybe, but why train with less than your gtg rifle.

    I tend to start with, "what am I trying to do?" Ok...."what parts do I have on hand? What is needed spec-wise to finish the build for the job?" Now I shop. This results in purpose built rifles of high use value.

    Look on armslist at how the aimless builds come together and then sell for......a great barrel with crap trigger and crap optic? $400....ouch...great barrel, optic and trigger? $1000 ......with all the trimmings? $1500-$2000

  3. #13
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    I'd like to make three points about the original post:

    1. I keep hearing nonsense on this forum about "Given the current market" from people including self proclaimed experts.
    Case and point: BCM BCG was free a few years ago with the upper, then it went up to $79, and then $99, 2016 it was $139 with or without the upper, 2017 price went up to $169. Same with the BCM Comp. It was free with the upper last year, now it is $85 or $90. I'm not singling out BCM in particular. The same goes for the prices of parts, uppers, and rifles of BCM, DD, KAC, Noveske, LMT, and even Aero precision, and etc. Barrel makes also haven't lowered their prices (BA, Lilja). I just don't see any decent discounts on quality brands either on parts or complete rifles/uppers. The only notable exception to this is probably COLT - but this has to do more with retailers overcharging customers previously rather than colt lowering their current prices.

    2. I think most people who are claiming to buy the best are missing the point of folks who are trying to safe money:
    a) some people don't need the best of the best. They just their gun to be reliable and good quality which suits their budget. Whenever the barrel will shoot 15k rounds vs 20k-40k or 1.5 v 2 MOA is irrelevant to many people and not worth $200-400 premium. Not in the good market, not in the bad.
    b) there is a difference between buying quality parts and being overcharged for brand names.

    3. People who buy best of the best (or top tier) probably do need it and deserve it. That is great! I'd love to hear their recommendations, reviews, and objective comparison of their rifles and parts to other manufacturers (even lower tier). There is a lot to learn and compare. However, please stop with the posts "stop buying cheap parts", "just buy BCM or COLT", "COLT is the best - it always worked for me" without providing a meaningful context, comparison, or actual experience.

    I do like to know what stands behind "... witnessing one more outrageous failure at a local range" in the original post.

  4. #14
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    There can be a difference between buying cheap parts, and buying parts that offer good value. Case in point - Sionics sells a MIL-SPEC phosphate BCG, and BCM sells a MIL-SPEC phosphate BCG. Am I stupid to buy the Sionics BCG and save $40? The trick is determining which parts offer value and which are just cheap.

    Andy

    P.S. I used Sionics and BCM as an example because I own both BCGs, and they are both excellent.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by P2000 View Post
    The hard part for inexperienced/uninformed AR-15 DIY assemblers is that you can actually spend more money and wind up with a less reliable rifle compared to a rifle made with true quality parts.
    Unless you are buying parts at legit wholesale/dealer prices I do not believe there is a way to put one together using mil-spec materials cheaper then you can currently buy a 6920.

    So I would say there is no way to build one cheaper.

    I think I'll come close with the complete Colt lower I bought from Brownell's and the M4 barrel assembly I bought from Green Mountain Barrels I have 400.00 + shipping in those two items and still need to factor in the costs of the parts I had on hand or had to order:

    Delta Ring -order
    Upper Receiver - had
    BCG - had
    Carbine gas tube - had
    BCM handguards - order
    Troy Battlesight - order

    Probably going to have to get a longer front sight post - it has an A2 front sight assembly - I was going to go with a carrying handle and I still might. This going to be a fun gun/loaner.

    Been cheaper to buy a LE6920 a month or so ago.

    But I'm having fun.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 01-19-18 at 14:14.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtrock82 View Post
    There are some that pinching pennies is nearly ingrained in their nature and it pervades all aspects of their lives, usually to the annoyance of their friends/aquaintances. Others are not realistically balancing their actual budget with their desires to have cool looking ish like everyone else (their perspective) and think all the money spent on gizmos; good, bad or otherwise, gets them membership in some sort of cool guys club that doesn't really exist.
    Holy shit, I have never seen a better post on the internet since ever.

    I have literally disowned friends who were such miser's that I could not spend any time with them and enjoy myself. I also have a friend who is 30 and has about $11 in his savings account, but he's got FLIR and all sorts of cool shit.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    I have literally disowned friends who were such miser's that I could not spend any time with them and enjoy myself. I also have a friend who is 30 and has about $11 in his savings account, but he's got FLIR and all sorts of cool shit.
    Yea people like that definitely suck


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #18
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    I can’t stand platitudes, but “buy once, cry once.” I buy top quality parts & assembled them myself with an armorer, after I got my certificate. Sure, I have “range toys” but my Daniel Defense & BCM parts go on quality lowers & uppers, Geissele triggers, Colt or Bravo LPKs. The rails are Daniel Defense. Optics are ACOGs & Aimpoints.

    I’m a “tinkerer” which is a curse. And a surgeon, so my ego & certificates (Glock & AR) makes me think I can do anything....and friends with more experience than I have who can undo anything I royally muck up.


    So, buy the best you can afford—all the parts are important if anything goes tits-up, your rifle generally goes down (I know not always.). Avoid YouTube unless you are looking for bad examples.

    ETA: Clarification. I trust BCM & Daniel Defense. I use Colt parts, but try to avoid their whole rifles as their customer service is painfully slow, in my experience. Your premise is tough to answer though, as essentially you want the best, least expensive parts that are “just as good as...” fill in the blank.

    Any machined part can and will fail, so you make your choice & take your chance. The better companies do non-destructive testing on each part to minimize risk of part failure, but that adds to expense. Other vendors batch test, which costs less and you may still get a non-defective part for less money, but maybe not. I have a preban Bushie i’ve never had a single issue with, but I don’t trust it as much as my Daniel Defense guns. I have PSA guns that have never had a hiccup, but again, less testing means lower price but possibly a greater risk of inopportune part failure.

    Best of luck with your project. Sometimes trial & error gives you the best answers.
    Last edited by MSW; 01-19-18 at 21:39.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Holy shit, I have never seen a better post on the internet since ever.

    I have literally disowned friends who were such miser's that I could not spend any time with them and enjoy myself. I also have a friend who is 30 and has about $11 in his savings account, but he's got FLIR and all sorts of cool shit.
    That's called being Operator-rich.

    If it was the Arctic, and I was booty naked and it was 0° Kelvin and some dude pulled up in a snowcat with Kryptek cold weather gear and said "Hey man, you look cold, put these on"

    I'd be like "Naw, man. I'm good."
    Last edited by Firefly; 01-19-18 at 21:38.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Holy shit, I have never seen a better post on the internet since ever.

    I have literally disowned friends who were such miser's that I could not spend any time with them and enjoy myself. I also have a friend who is 30 and has about $11 in his savings account, but he's got FLIR and all sorts of cool shit.
    I tried to help one of my miser friends with a build once. Only once. I finally left him on his own. He saved a "ton" (his words). It doesn't run. Not my problem.

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