13 hour battle leaves 40 + dead

[dwhitehorne]

Sundance I’m not sure where you live but I’m in DC every day training people. We have had two rifle shootings that have occurred since I have been in training. Both were done by patrol because SWAT is always 30 minutes out. We have two full time teams on my Department alone. Getting the team together and at a location for a coordinated response would take time. I went to Fairfax Virginia PD for an instructor course on PACOP (Paramilitary Attack Counter Offensive Plan) a few years ago. It was basically a fire team level small unit tactics class. Telling a US LEO to fire and maneuver providing cover fire across a parking lot while taking fire gets a lot of questions. It was a very good for are thinking program. We spent 4 hours on it during In-Service a few years ago and haven’t since. Think of the training people had in boot camp on repelling and assault and then never getting it again. US law enforcement is not prepared for a fire team level gunfight. David

[sundance435]

Sundance I’m not sure where you live but I’m in DC every day training people. We have had two rifle shootings that have occurred since I have been in training. Both were done by patrol because SWAT is always 30 minutes out. We have two full time teams on my Department alone. Getting the team together and at a location for a coordinated response would take time. I went to Fairfax Virginia PD for an instructor course on PACOP (Paramilitary Attack Counter Offensive Plan) a few years ago. It was basically a fire team level small unit tactics class. Telling a US LEO to fire and maneuver providing cover fire across a parking lot while taking fire gets a lot of questions. It was a very good for are thinking program. We spent 4 hours on it during In-Service a few years ago and haven’t since. Think of the training people had in boot camp on repelling and assault and then never getting it again. US law enforcement is not prepared for a fire team level gunfight. David

I don't think we're disagreeing about anything - I was only talking about SWAT teams, not patrol guys - I said the only places in the world where you'll have a trained QRF on-scene within 15 minutes are in active warzones. SWAT is at least 30 mins out in most places. There's no practical way around the current state of affairs, but I still think we're as prepared as any of the European countries mentioned due to the proliferation of SWAT here, certainly more than India, considering the size of our country.

[NYH1]

Aren't a lot of the FBI-HRT guys former SOF guys?

NYH1.

[BoringGuy45]

Aren't a lot of the FBI-HRT guys former SOF guys?

NYH1.

From what I understand, most HRT operators are not in their first go around with a special operations/tactical unit. According to Chris Whitcomb's book, most of the candidates in his selection class were former SEALs, Rangers, SF, Force Recon Marines, Delta, etc., as well as a lot of guys from FBI and local LE SWAT teams. Whitcomb was one of the few who had no related experience. However, if I remember correctly, of the six other guys selected with him, only one guy, a former Ranger, was from any SOF unit.

One thing I didn't know about HRT, is that they're probably the only American CT/tactical unit that is airborne qualified (at least some operators are, according to the FBI website).

[Combat_Diver]

The Kabul incident has my attentions since its only 45 miles to the south. Reference LE role in the US is because of the Posse Comitatus act 1878 prohibits US military involvement. Even in advisor roles to the FBI we've had to back out ie Waco.


CD

[NYH1]

From what I understand, most HRT operators are not in their first go around with a special operations/tactical unit. According to Chris Whitcomb's book, most of the candidates in his selection class were former SEALs, Rangers, SF, Force Recon Marines, Delta, etc., as well as a lot of guys from FBI and local LE SWAT teams. Whitcomb was one of the few who had no related experience. However, if I remember correctly, of the six other guys selected with him, only one guy, a former Ranger, was from any SOF unit.

One thing I didn't know about HRT, is that they're probably the only American CT/tactical unit that is airborne qualified (at least some operators are, according to the FBI website).

I was bored as heck one night and came across Brand Webb's SOFREP site. They were talking with a guy that was former USMC Recon then MARSOC. He said a lot of HRT guys are former SOF guys. That his unit actually did some sniper and urban training with HRT somewhere out west. Said HRT is as legit as any like unit he's ever trained/served with. I remember LAV speaking highly of them as well.

Oh, MARSOC dude said HRT has their own helicoters.

NYH1.