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Thread: Scout vs Elzetta for HD rifle?

  1. #1
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    Scout vs Elzetta for HD rifle?

    My rifle currently has a G2x Tactical in a DD picatinny mount, but I'm probably going to upgrade the light on my rifle later this year when I get my income tax return. I'm currently thinking of either a Scout style light in an Arisaka inline Keymod mount or an Elzetta Bravo B133 in a 1" keymod mount. Overall I like my G2X, but I miss having it as an EDC light, and I want a more dedicated/durable WML. I would want to mount the light at the 10:30 position of the KMR (or the 1:30 if I added a tape switch down the road), so I want something that will hug the rail tightly. Weight is a slight consideration, and I know the Bravo is the heavier option, but it's not a dealbreaker.

    If I went with the Scout style it'd be between the M300U and the M600IB. I'm not too interested in the M600U, but the IB looks interesting. If there were an M300IB that would probably eliminate all other Scout choices for me and it would be between it and the Bravo.

    The rifle is for indoor HD use with the extremely slim possibility of ~30 yards outdoors (say, if a coyote attacked my dog in the backyard), so for me spill > throw. For only $20 I'd certainly try the Elzetta flood lens if I went that route, but I don't know if that would be best for me or not. I like the modularity of the Bravo as well as the silent clicky tailcap, but the Scouts are smaller & lighter on the end of a rifle, and the DS07 is the only tape switch that I'd currently consider. I'll probably never do anything cool enough to break either type of light, so I'm not concerned about durability of one vs the other. I only own one rifle and it has a KMR, so ease of swapping between different uppers or different attachment systems (keymod/1913/mlok) doesn't concern me.

  2. #2
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    I'm a big fan of the AVS head with spot optic, and have several of them. I don't consider them fully appropriate for an all purpose weapon mounted light when used indoors or outdoors at close range. The central spot is very well focused, thanks to the large optic diameter. The next outer area of light is fairly large and usefully bright, but the outer spill is are quite subdued. Your spill > throw doesn't jive with the AVS with spot optic. The flood optic is a whole other animal and matches more closely to your needs. My HD nightstand light is a Charlie with flood optic, and it lights up a room supremely well. Unlike dedicated flood only lights, the Elzetta optic is entirely useful outdoors to 30 plus yards. You won't overpower someone's eyes at that distance, but you will see the target very well, and what's on each side to a very useful degree.

    Compared to the Elzetta, the M300 is truly petite and weighs nothing comparatively. The M600 with standard head is still considerably smaller and much lighter. Thety use a TIR optic to focus the photons into a small and intense spot. I don't know how bright the spill is, but I doubt it would be bright enough to suit you.

    Another brand to consider is Malkoff Devices. The Arisaka Scout lights use Malkoff E1 and E2 series heads, and Malkoff durability is fully equal to that of Elzetta. Malkoff's Scout heads with optics are tightly focused, just like the M600 and KE2-A head. Malkoff also has the MD series of lights, which have 1" diameter bodies and slightly less than 1.25" heads. The MD2 with M61HOT is unlike all of the above. It's got a well focused central spot, but spill is very bright, much like the AVS with spot optic. This is likely to be the best optic-based option without going all the way to an AVS with flood optic.

    I have yet to find a better indoor and close range outdoor small format solution than the Malkoff E1 and E2 reflector-based heads. They use the same emitters and reflectors (designed by Don McLeish) as the highly respected M61 LED module. The E2 and cool white M61 only have 325 lumens, but the spill is very large and bright.....exactly what a person wants indoors. They are E-Series compatible so they will work with Arisaka's Scout bodies, for a less costly Scout-ish solution.

    Naturally, the M61 is a valid choice for use in a Surefire 6P host.

    I'm personally not convinced that the IntelliBeam is a great idea for indoor weapon mounted usage. Having the output throttled back if I bounce the light off the floor to illuminate a small room is unlikely a desired outcome.
    Last edited by grizzman; 01-26-18 at 23:00.

  3. #3
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    The new 500 lumen m300 is a beast. It's excellent for closer applications where you want a ton of spill but still able to reach out a bit if things move outdoors. I'm putting on on my 14" m4

  4. #4
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    Any of the above will work. It just depends on how close to indoor perfection the OP wants to achieve. An old 65 lumen incandescent Surefire 6P with shock isolated bezel will get the job done.

    The site http://flashlightguide.com/ has indoor and outdoor beamshot photos of the Elzettas with both optics, and also the G2X. It also has useful photos that allow a direct comparison between two lights via a slider feature.

    Since you didn't mention a budget, I'll drop this here.....https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/...a-satin-black/. I have the Moddoolar Pocket version, and it's flat out unreal. When fed by a 16650 Li-Ion cell, it'll max out at nearly 2000 lumens. If you'd prefer 1600 or 1300 or 1000, or 750, or 630, or 480 lumens, or 20+ lower options, it's just a program change away.
    Last edited by grizzman; 01-27-18 at 18:12.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG19919 View Post
    My rifle currently has a G2x Tactical in a DD picatinny mount, but I'm probably going to upgrade the light on my rifle later this year when I get my income tax return. I'm currently thinking of either a Scout style light in an Arisaka inline Keymod mount or an Elzetta Bravo B133 in a 1" keymod mount. Overall I like my G2X, but I miss having it as an EDC light, and I want a more dedicated/durable WML. I would want to mount the light at the 10:30 position of the KMR (or the 1:30 if I added a tape switch down the road), so I want something that will hug the rail tightly. Weight is a slight consideration, and I know the Bravo is the heavier option, but it's not a dealbreaker.

    If I went with the Scout style it'd be between the M300U and the M600IB. I'm not too interested in the M600U, but the IB looks interesting. If there were an M300IB that would probably eliminate all other Scout choices for me and it would be between it and the Bravo.

    The rifle is for indoor HD use with the extremely slim possibility of ~30 yards outdoors (say, if a coyote attacked my dog in the backyard), so for me spill > throw. For only $20 I'd certainly try the Elzetta flood lens if I went that route, but I don't know if that would be best for me or not. I like the modularity of the Bravo as well as the silent clicky tailcap, but the Scouts are smaller & lighter on the end of a rifle, and the DS07 is the only tape switch that I'd currently consider. I'll probably never do anything cool enough to break either type of light, so I'm not concerned about durability of one vs the other. I only own one rifle and it has a KMR, so ease of swapping between different uppers or different attachment systems (keymod/1913/mlok) doesn't concern me.

    I have a quick comparison of the flood and standard lens in the Bravo in the video below (starts around 1:15) if that helps.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear View Post
    I have a quick comparison of the flood and standard lens in the Bravo in the video below (starts around 1:15) if that helps.

    Your video is actually how I found out about their flood lens. Because there’s not the same bright hotspot you get with the normal spotlight lens I was wondering if the flood lens is still capable of temporarily blinding someone on the receiving end?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzman View Post
    I'm a big fan of the AVS head with spot optic, and have several of them. I don't consider them fully appropriate for an all purpose weapon mounted light when used indoors or outdoors at close range. The central spot is very well focused, thanks to the large optic diameter. The next outer area of light is fairly large and usefully bright, but the outer spill is are quite subdued. Your spill > throw doesn't jive with the AVS with spot optic. The flood optic is a whole other animal and matches more closely to your needs. My HD nightstand light is a Charlie with flood optic, and it lights up a room supremely well. Unlike dedicated flood only lights, the Elzetta optic is entirely useful outdoors to 30 plus yards. You won't overpower someone's eyes at that distance, but you will see the target very well, and what's on each side to a very useful degree.

    Compared to the Elzetta, the M300 is truly petite and weighs nothing comparatively. The M600 with standard head is still considerably smaller and much lighter. Thety use a TIR optic to focus the photons into a small and intense spot. I don't know how bright the spill is, but I doubt it would be bright enough to suit you.

    Another brand to consider is Malkoff Devices. The Arisaka Scout lights use Malkoff E1 and E2 series heads, and Malkoff durability is fully equal to that of Elzetta. Malkoff's Scout heads with optics are tightly focused, just like the M600 and KE2-A head. Malkoff also has the MD series of lights, which have 1" diameter bodies and slightly less than 1.25" heads. The MD2 with M61HOT is unlike all of the above. It's got a well focused central spot, but spill is very bright, much like the AVS with spot optic. This is likely to be the best optic-based option without going all the way to an AVS with flood optic.

    I have yet to find a better indoor and close range outdoor small format solution than the Malkoff E1 and E2 reflector-based heads. They use the same emitters and reflectors (designed by Don McLeish) as the highly respected M61 LED module. The E2 and cool white M61 only have 325 lumens, but the spill is very large and bright.....exactly what a person wants indoors. They are E-Series compatible so they will work with Arisaka's Scout bodies, for a less costly Scout-ish solution.

    Naturally, the M61 is a valid choice for use in a Surefire 6P host.

    I'm personally not convinced that the IntelliBeam is a great idea for indoor weapon mounted usage. Having the output throttled back if I bounce the light off the floor to illuminate a small room is unlikely a desired outcome.
    I’ve spent a fair amount of time browsing the wml pic thread lately and the 300 series in the Arisaka mount looks like a sweet setup for sure.

    You make a good point about the intellibeam that I hadn’t considered. My home isn’t very large, so I would be aiming the light at the floor in front of me to illuminate an entire room, so maybe the IB isn’t the best solution.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG19919 View Post
    Your video is actually how I found out about their flood lens. Because there’s not the same bright hotspot you get with the normal spotlight lens I was wondering if the flood lens is still capable of temporarily blinding someone on the receiving end?
    Like anything, it's relative so there's just no way to give a definite answer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    The new 500 lumen m300 is a beast. It's excellent for closer applications where you want a ton of spill but still able to reach out a bit if things move outdoors. I'm putting on on my 14" m4
    I have to agree with this. Great light.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    The new 500 lumen m300 is a beast. It's excellent for closer applications where you want a ton of spill but still able to reach out a bit if things move outdoors. I'm putting on on my 14" m4
    Pretty much this. Here are my first impressions copied from another thread:

    Some first impressions on the new 500 lumen scout.

    -Yes its has a less bright hot spot than the previous scout versions but far larger spill
    -It has a warmer hue, compared to the previous scouts, a warm yellowish green vs a cool bluish white
    -Those 2 combined makes it seem like the output isnt as bright as the previous versions
    -However, taking out to distance 25,50 and 100 yards its throw is almost as good as the previous versions except I can see more around what Im pointing it at.
    -I can pretty much light up an entire average sized bedroom corner to corner which is perfect since Im more likely to use it indoors than out

    I greatly prefer the new 500 lumen version. I feel like Im gaining a lot more situational awareness outside of the hot spot vs the older scouts and Im not losing much in terms of throw. If I wanted a 100+ yard search light I would just wait and get the 1500 lumen M600DF. But for my purposes of mainly indoor and short-medium range outdoor this new version suits me perfectly. The only gripe I have is the cat piss yellowish green tint. If it were a cool bluish white it would be perfect.

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