Does the 7N6 round in 5.44x.39 cause more damage than a .308??

[Firefly]

And yes you do need an SVD

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My SR-25 does my talking

[vicious_cb]

I know people may think its a joke but the 7N6 tumbles like mad and causes more tissue damage than the 7.62x.38. I am sitting on a spam can of 1,080 rounds. Im Looking to buy another 1,080 rounds. My theory is that the.308 would create a big hole but would not yaw and tumble like the 5.45 round. I have a Colt LE6920 and like it but the AK74 has a reputation as being a wicked round. Maybe its over hyped??

Sorry 5.45 round not 5.44!

No, 7n6 effectiveness is over exaggerated. Its the same logic people use when trying to justify 5.7 terminal ballistics. You are better off punching a big hole over trying to make a bullet travel sideways through flesh. That "poison bullet" BS is pretty much Soviet propaganda, some SF guys who came back from Afghanistan who worked with former Muj who fought against the Soviets asked about it. The 'poison' in poison bullet roughly translates in Pashto to the poison in a wasp or bee sting. So 7n6 hit more like a bee sting rather than your wicked mad tumbling magic bullet.

5.45 is a ripoff of 5.56

Its only appeal before the ATF sperged put was that it was cheap.

Otherwise it is the Soviets using a pencil while we use a space pen.

I'm sure someone will be along to cite how we need 5.45, Dragunovs, and RPGs to win wars.

Actually ballistically I think 5.45 is more like 5.56 2.0. Ive shot thousands and thousands of rounds 5.45 7n6 and Ive been impressed on how flat is shoots. The BC on that little 53gr bullet is far higher than 55gr or 62gr ball ammo and its doing it at lower velocity and lower pressure(my suspensions were confirmed via doppler radar regression : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...unition-Review. The problem with 5.45 is that it got left in the stone age of ammo development. You won't see super match grade bullets or barrier blind SPs. Ive since completely divested myself of the caliber since the ATF pretty much killed it stateside which is a shame since the caliber had so much potential.

[shiv]

No, 7n6 effectiveness is over exaggerated. Its the same logic people use when trying to justify 5.7 terminal ballistics. You are better off punching a big hole over trying to make a bullet travel sideways through flesh. That "poison bullet" BS is pretty much Soviet propaganda, some SF guys who came back from Afghanistan who worked with former Muj who fought against the Soviets asked about it. The 'poison' in poison bullet roughly translates in Pashto to the poison in a wasp or bee sting. So 7n6 hit more like a bee sting rather than your wicked mad tumbling magic bullet.



Actually ballistically I think 5.45 is more like 5.56 2.0. Ive shot thousands and thousands of rounds 5.45 7n6 and Ive been impressed on how flat is shoots. The BC on that little 53gr bullet is far higher than 55gr or 62gr ball ammo and its doing it at lower velocity and lower pressure(my suspensions were confirmed via doppler radar regression : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...unition-Review. The problem with 5.45 is that it got left in the stone age of ammo development. You won't see super match grade bullets or barrier blind SPs. Ive since completely divested myself of the caliber since the ATF pretty much killed it stateside which is a shame since the caliber had so much potential.

Looked at the link. They were comparing WPA 5.56. Not exactly the pinnacle of 5.56 projectiles. At what range you shooting that you noticed the 5.45 to be measureably flatter?


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[vicious_cb]

Looked at the link. They were comparing WPA 5.56. Not exactly the pinnacle of 5.56 projectiles. At what range you shooting that you noticed the 5.45 to be measureably flatter?


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Thats not even the article I was referencing. I have go to find the magazine but they were getting something like a G1 of .370 which is heavy OTM BCs out of a light 53gr bullet which is pretty impressive. No one is arguing that 7n6 is better than the 5.56 match loads out there but that 7n6, compared to its contemporaries had some pretty impressive performance for its time.

[shiv]

Thats not even the article I was referencing. I have go to find the magazine but they were getting something like a G1 of .370 which is heavy OTM BCs out of a light 53gr bullet which is pretty impressive. No one is arguing that 7n6 is better than the 5.56 match loads out there but that 7n6, compared to its contemporaries had some pretty impressive performance for its time.

I see low .3s published but even then, if we assumed .370 was the norm, the round is slower and that negates BC advantage. Resulting performance is the same as far as exterior ballistics are concerned. Nothing special about 5.45. It’s just a 5.56 from a different part of the world.


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It's all good. You have a point. If I had a 5.45 drop chart I would post it. But unfortunately I do not.

I do agree they are quite similar and likely by design on behalf of the Russians to keep ballistic parity with the West.

I would reckon they have some kind of 5.45 progress but those rounds are simply unobtainable in the West and are unknown variables (at least where we are concerned)

If anyone has more knowledge on their current rounds, it would be interesting

I did post the drop chart

That’s why I was inquiring how much flatter people were claiming with 5.45. The numbers are indistinguishable. Any perceived “flatbread” with 5.45 AKMs va an AR can be attributed to the AR’s height over bore rather than actual trajectory. That’s why I set them both the same with the ballistic calculator. When we shoot 7N6 out of the 5.45, it’s got just a bit more drop than the 5.56 rifles with 14.5” barrels. The 5.45 AR is a 16”. They are sighing four inches of each other at 300.


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[Iraqgunz]

What's the ballistic coefficient of a Colt 6920 with the bolt locked back and chained to a radiator heater?

[HelloLarry]

Nothing special about 5.45. It’s just a 5.56 from a different part of the world.

Bottom line: The 5.45 is a .222 Remington with an unusual (to us) bullet.

[Firefly]

Actually ballistically I think 5.45 is more like 5.56 2.0. Ive shot thousands and thousands of rounds 5.45 7n6 and Ive been impressed on how flat is shoots. The BC on that little 53gr bullet is far higher than 55gr or 62gr ball ammo and its doing it at lower velocity and lower pressure(my suspensions were confirmed via doppler radar regression : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...unition-Review. The problem with 5.45 is that it got left in the stone age of ammo development. You won't see super match grade bullets or barrier blind SPs. Ive since completely divested myself of the caliber since the ATF pretty much killed it stateside which is a shame since the caliber had so much potential.

Fair enough but I mean it literally is a workaround ripoff of the 5.56 they copied from Vietnam.

I didn't dislike it, really. I had a Saiga 5.45 and it got respectable groups but the ATF had to ATF. I'd sooner use a 5.56 simply because it is more available and never roped the AR 5.45 goat but as you say the choices were limited. It was actually a fun caliber to shoot on top of being cheap. The cannelure of the round was pretty interesting.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss plinking with it but aside from Wolf the only option is Hornady. It was far more respectable to 300 yds than the 7.62 AK round.

The only thing keeping me from messing with AKs anymore is the dearth of 5.45. The 5.56 AKs just have a few fleas and for the effort; I'd sooner hit the AR easy button.

I had a bunch of Silver Bear 5.45 OT which I must say was the better round. I sorta miss it, even with irons.

I agree the poison bullet deal is way overhyped though.

[1168]

Op, as you’ve already been told about a million times, tumbling as a wounding mechanism is pure BS compared to modern soft points and all copper hollowpoints. In gelatin, bullets that require yaw to work (7n6) leave longer necks (suboptimal). Then the bullet exits the side of the block, demonstrating that it does not track straight (suboptimal).

Ever wonder why nobody offers a 5.56 bullet duplicating 7n6 ballistically? Its not like it uses some magic technology that isn’t reproducible. 7n6 has a similar sectional density as 55gr .224 projectiles. It has a similar ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity as M855. In other words, a bullet designer can easily toss an air pocket in the front of a 55 grain .224 bullet and get the same BC, but more velocity, or get equal velocity and greater BC in a heavier bullet. But do we have LAPD SWAT, FBI HRT, or military SOF shooters begging for their R&D guys to come up with a 7n6 analogue? No, because they have much better ammo, most of which is available to civilian shooters.

If someone is forced to use FMJ, 7n6 works, but isn’t all that special. Its better than 7.62x39 ball in my opinion, and thats about as much as I’ll give you.

I really like 5.45 AKs, but there is nothing they do that an M4 loaded with good bullets can’t do equally well or better. AK74’s can have less recoil, thats about it. Most people that prattle on about 7n6 are AK fanboys with no formal training on the subject of gunshot wounds or ballistics. I would bet most of them have never even seen live tissue gsw’s in person, and if they have it was probably deer and pigs shot with a completely different caliber.

Compared to .308? You’ve got to be effing kidding us. Quit making a new thread every week asserting that 7n6 is special somehow, or bring some real evidence that it is. I don’t think you’ll find any. Put it to rest until then, please.

[Arik]

From what I've seen in deer flesh it's certainly nothing to sneeze at. Pictures aren't mine to repost otherwise I'd post them up. However, it's nothing that a good 556 can't do and with more availability it's just easier to stick with 556. If you can't afford both stick with 556. Forget the 308. For the price of a Springfield Scout you can get roughly 3 - 4 THOUSAND rounds of range 556. Wolf Gold and Fiocchi are around $300 delivered ($290 + $16 flat fee shipped). Or you can get 500 - 1000 rounds of good SD ammo + some range ammo or a mixture there of.

If you're seriously hurting for money I'd sell off the AK and the ammo. For one do-it-all gun the 6920 just makes more sense financially

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