anyone willing to test a Bolt Carrier

[elephant]

As far as I'm concerned, the OP's product is a classic case of a solution in search of a problem.

A little bit about me:

I co-own and work for a company that manufactures the catapults for 6 US aircraft carriers, dive, trim and steering cylinders for the entire Ohio Class submarine fleet, launch pad leveling cylinders and missile erection cylinders for the entire Minuteman II & III missile program. We also manufacture and the OEM for 60% of the US steel mills including Nucor, Arcelor Mittal, and Gerdau Ameristeel. We also provide motion compensation, riser tensioners, crown mounted tensioners and drill string compensator to the worlds largest offshore oil rigs. This company was founded by my dad in his garage in 1976. I have worked here and only here since I was 12. We own several companies, Hannon Hydraulics, Remco Hydraulics (currently in a $3 Billion dollar law suit that goes back before we bought them), ABEX, Brown Brothers (part owned by Rolls Royce) and Motion-Pro. We have locations in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Singapore, Scotland and Australia.

Having said that, my dad passed back in October from a neurological disorder and it was decided that we (my mom and board of directors really) would shut down the business and sell off the assets or wind down and try to sell the business. I have since been let go which has been really hard on me because that company is the only thing I know. I have never worked for another company, I have only done one thing my whole life. So now I am working on the things that I have been putting off for a couple of years.

I have money and I have contacts in every industrial industry from Dallas Texas to planet Mars. I wouldn't be doing this if I felt that I would just be throwing money away. This product, as I went a little more into detail, has come from about 2 years of research and design. I have several 3D printed working models that have been evaluated and reviewed by engineers that specialize in fluid power and fluid dynamics. I'm not in the sealing wax business and this is NOT a classic case of a solution in search of a problem.

This is a classic case of developing something new and hoping to bring it to the market and possibly starting a business. I asked if there would be anyone interested in reviewing and testing my product. And I stated earlier that I would be happy to donate the ammo needed. This would be a preliminary test to see if actual gun guys thought this product sucked or had potential and get general feedback from a non-control test. I think that is the best feedback to get and I think most people on this forum are honest enough to tell me if this product sucks.

BTW: I don't own 2 airplanes, I co- owned (2) airplanes at 2 different times. And when my dad lost his ability to walk, we sold them.

[elephant]

In the OP you say HY100 and link to HY80.
there is no link for HY-100

I have worked extensively with both when employed at PSNS (DoD) on both subs and surface vessels.
I have shipped a lot of my products to PSNS Bremerton and San Diego

Ohio class are not HY100 hulls, or any other structural component.
I manufacture the dive, trim and steering cylinders for the entire Ohio Class Fleet and we use HY-100, the NAVSEA requirements state HY-100

Corrosion resistance out of HY yield steels is greatly overstated. They are not CRES or stainless. HY steels are chosen for their toughness, ability to flex under pressure and they rust pretty easily all things considered. Also, for those who are curious, they are NOT armor rated steels by any stretch of the imagination (I know this wasn't stated, i'm just making this clear). I've had the opportunity to shoot several pieces of HY80 with a wide variety of ammunition and the results were less then impressive. 5.7mm out of a P90 burned through 3/8" plate %50 of the time at 25 yards. Most 5.56mm did not penetrate (M193 or M855) at any distance, but caused severe cratering and some deformation on the back plate. Multiple hits same location would eventually burn through. Anything .30 cal and above went through it like shit through a goose (furthest test distance was 200 meters).
I hope no one assumes this is armor rated, the corrosion resistance is on par with Super Duplex and Inconel which I work with both daily. I resistant to pitting, erosion and cracking due to erosion.

Because of this, these materials exhibit more "springback" during forming and use then Ordinary Steels (OS). They also experience a fair amount of expansion/contraction during heating and cooling and require special treatment prior to welding on heavy sections (pre-heat for any and all hull components) or the base material will suffer micro-cracking. On sub-safe surfaces, this is a bad thing. Naval controls for working on these materials are pretty stringent, especially on the newer class subs for various reasons, most of which I cannot elaborate on. Having worked with multiple grades of HY, I'd rather work with 80 than 100 any day of the week. 60, not so much.
I don't have 80, I have 100 MIL-S 16216-K and this came from American Alloy Steel which is a provider for General Dynamics, Bath Iron Works and Eclectic Boat

My biggest concern for HY carriers is the fact that HY comes pre-heat treated and tempered..... which is pretty soft all things considered (see the above regarding it's lack of armor plate qualities), which could be cause for concern regarding its impact resistance in applications such as being a bolt carrier. Were it to be heat treated and tempered (hardened to a more appropriate hardness for an application such as this), it would lose it's properties that make it HY80 or 100.
Quench and Tempered isn't a bad thing, HY has titanium, copper, nickel, carbon, manganese, silicon and other elements that makes this ideal

The fact that it has the yield strength it does comes not just from the alloy, but also from how it's processed (treat and temper). Having drilled on copious amounts of HY steel and having ATTEMPTED to drill a standard bolt carrier with the same type of drill bits out of sheer curiosity some years ago, I can definitively say that HY is much, much, much softer, yet has more inherent springback. Basically it's like a soft spring. Which may lead to more bolt bounce as well as deformation through constant impact.

I would be willing to test a carrier (I would attempt Parkerizing it as well), and you would get a very unbiased opinion that's backed up by prior experience with the material.
I have a proprietary method that has in my knowledge never been used on weapons




Regarding the above idea to slow the BCG prior to impact on the barrel extension, unless the buffer system is "attached" or locked to the BCG, it won't make a difference. It will only change how the buffer interacts with its force on the BCG, not the interaction between the BCG and extension.
The BCG and buffer will be attached as (1) unit, the method of how that is done is what is being patented right now so I cant go into detail

Remember how a short stroke piston driven system works. The op-rod only pushes the BCG rearward for approx. 3/8" and the resultant energy transferred to the BCG is enough to carry it through the remainder of the rearward stroke of the cycle. When the buffer pushes the BCG forward, in theory it only needs to travel far enough to impart enough energy on the BCG to overcome stripping the next round, chambering, and locking the bolt into position. If you slow the buffer just before the BCG impacts, the buffer will slow, but the BCG already has that energy and will continue with the same force while the buffer slows.

Changing the amount of force imparted on the BCG by the buffer *may* have unexpected consequences in feeding or overcoming fouling.

[MegademiC]

A steel with 5.4% ni+cr has the same corrosion resistance as a ni-cr alloy (not steel)?
Im skeptical.

[GrumpyM4]

[QUOTE]

there is no link for HY-100

I have shipped a lot of my products to PSNS Bremerton and San Diego


I manufacture the dive, trim and steering cylinders for the entire Ohio Class Fleet and we use HY-100, the NAVSEA requirements state HY-100

Like I said, no "structural" component. I worked structural steel (read: hull, launch systems, etc.) Your stuff is used by the outside machinery mechanics. I've assisted them a few times on missile tube work and I've had to crawl around/over/under your cylinders to access various work sites.

I hope no one assumes this is armor rated, the corrosion resistance is on par with Super Duplex and Inconel which I work with both daily. I resistant to pitting, erosion and cracking due to erosion.

Like I said, I know you didn't say so. I've experienced many times when discussing hull plating that the first thing someone says is that it's armor, so I decided to nip that in the bud right off the bat.

Unfortunately I am going to have to disabuse you of the corrosion resistance statements. I have worked with Inconel on launch systems and had to remove perfectly non-corroded Inconel grounding blocks that were welded to corroded HY.

I've seen Inconel and other nickel and copper alloys (such as Monel) survive salt water quite well, but the amount of corrosion removal I've done on HY80 and HY100, even in areas that were NOT submerged in salt water and were protected by paint (shaft alley), has been great and varied. Atmospheric resistance may be slightly above par, but real world use puts it at marginally better then OS and nowhere near CRES or Inconel.

The machine shop is a very different ride than the deckplates.

I don't have 80, I have 100 MIL-S 16216-K and this came from American Alloy Steel which is a provider for General Dynamics, Bath Iron Works and Eclectic Boat


Quench and Tempered isn't a bad thing, HY has titanium, copper, nickel, carbon, manganese, silicon and other elements that makes this ideal

This remains to be seen. Alloy isn't everything. In high impact uses (such as a BCG), hardness and temper are very important. Please do not assume that because a material is good for one thing that it'll be good for another. Especially if it comes in a pre treated form to achieve the properties necessary for a specific use that's unlike the intended use that's being discussed.

A quick comparison of HY alloys vs. inconell vs. stainless and the comparative levels of nickel, chromium, etc. shows that HY is nowhere near the same levels.

Don't get me wrong, it's absolutely worth testing, but without any assumptions.

I have a proprietary method that has in my knowledge never been used on weapons

Give it a shot. See what happens. Keep an open mind.

The BCG and buffer will be attached as (1) unit, the method of how that is done is what is being patented right now so I cant go into detail

That's the way to do it.

Perhaps a more important aspect of this would be controlling rate of fire, moreso then attempting to reduce felt recoil or wear on the weapon.

[hotrodder636]

Being a Navy guy, I would really be interested in a BCG or carrier made of HY100...I am that kind of nerd.

Condolences regarding your father and sorry to hear about the hard times at the business.

[Leaveammoforme]

I've been part of a few Forum Guinea Pig groups here before. Nothing has permanently maimed me thus far, so I'm up for the next. Holler if you need me when the time arrives.

[R.O.U.S.]

.......

[elephant]

Your stuff is used by the outside machinery mechanics. I've assisted them a few times on missile tube work and I've had to crawl around/over/under your cylinders to access various work sites.

That's awesome that they let you inside and crawl around. I have sets of blueprints to certain parts of the Ohio Class but a lot of the information contained in those drawings has been blacked out. They wont provide any documentation, photos or much information except the print that they give us.
This is from my collection of NAVSEA books given to me by the Dept of the Navy. This is what I am going off of.
Attachment 50449



Unfortunately I am going to have to disabuse you of the corrosion resistance statements. I have worked with Inconel on launch systems and had to remove perfectly non-corroded Inconel grounding blocks that were welded to corroded HY.
I'm not denying your statement, but the Department Acquisition University, DoD, DNR, DTIC and congress says to use HY-100 because it is resistant to corrosion. I think Inconel and other super alloys is just too difficult to work with.



This remains to be seen. Alloy isn't everything. In high impact uses (such as a BCG), hardness and temper are very important. Please do not assume that because a material is good for one thing that it'll be good for another. Especially if it comes in a pre treated form to achieve the properties necessary for a specific use that's unlike the intended use that's being discussed.
That kind of why I'm doing this, I have no other way to see if this will work in those conditions. I would be lead to assume that HY would be perfect for a BCG, but I could be horribly wrong. I know that HY can expand and contract under a lot of heat, but I doubt an AR can achieve that kind of heat.

A quick comparison of HY alloys vs. inconell vs. stainless and the comparative levels of nickel, chromium, etc. shows that HY is nowhere near the same levels.
Inconel is hard to machine unless you use induction heat and for some reason, Inconel doesn't like carbide tools and its not martensitic, so I cant do magnetic particle inspections, otherwise Inconel 718 would be my first choice for material.




I want to sent you a small sample of Ceramax, so you can tell me what you think. It has a titanium, greyish silver tone to it and has a mirror like finish. I think you will like it.

[thehammer69]

Having spent the early part of my adult years on Submarines, this project interests me. I have a rifle or 2 that wouldn't mind being a test bed.

Btw, The subs I was on all used HY80 in their hulls. Not sure how it's corrosion properties compare to HY100, but that stuff would rust.

[1168]

Op, you had me at free ammo. PM me for credentials, shipping address, and testing protocols.