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Thread: Why all the hate for pocket guns?

  1. #151
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    Haven't read the whole thread, usually do, apologies if I'm beating a dead horse. Why do people rag on pocket guns? **** if I know. I don't use them myself. Wouldn't care if I did. I've been doing a long slow withdrawal from the current state of gun culture. Can't relate to a lot of stuff now. Of course a pocket gun isn't as fast or shootable as an appendix carry, roughly 19 sized pistol. Does it need to be, for you? Do you need a WML for concealed carry? Would a 26 or 43 in a vanguard, no light be concealable in your dress style?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomBowie View Post
    Haven't read the whole thread, usually do, apologies if I'm beating a dead horse. Why do people rag on pocket guns? **** if I know. I don't use them myself. Wouldn't care if I did. I've been doing a long slow withdrawal from the current state of gun culture. Can't relate to a lot of stuff now. Of course a pocket gun isn't as fast or shootable as an appendix carry, roughly 19 sized pistol. Does it need to be, for you? Do you need a WML for concealed carry? Would a 26 or 43 in a vanguard, no light be concealable in your dress style?
    I went from a JFrame to a G27 both were pocket carry. I sold the G27 when I got my 9mm Shield. For me to shoot it well at 25 yards I needed the extended magazine but I carried it with a flush mag and a 15 round reload. I can shoot the Shield better at 25 yards. Maybe the 26 would have worked well there too. The 27 was too snappy beyond 15 yards for well placed follow up shots. The JFrame was a 15 yard gun for me too. It didn't really have sights. Point shooting worked well for me.


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  3. #153
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    Wear as much gun as you can conceal. For me, with a Raven Concealment Systems Eidolon holster--which holster can be adjusted to three ride depths on the holster and then the clips have three mounting holes on them for even more adjustment, which clips can also adjust cant--with a Magpul Tejas belt absolutely disappears, even under a tshirt. I am ok with a slight bulge in a given posture or if my torso is turned to a wide degree. Nobody is looking, and the gun is so hard to see unless you are looking for it specifically, that nobody knows that I have it. And if I can do that with 15+1 of 9x19mm, why not?

    If you can't, you can't.

    Handguns' have as their chief advantage their ability to be concealed, and thereby to be on your person at all times. Were concealability & carryability not pertinent to the circumstances, you'd probably have a long gun and body armor and friends. If a particular setup denies you those two characteristics, and thereby sacrifices up-time for carry or has you get made easily, then there is no point in carrying such a weapon.

    Also, with the Glock 43/44, the Walther PPS/PPQ-SC, S&W Shield series, etc., we don't have to make very significant sacrifices to carry decent guns anymore. I've never carried around a J-frame snubbie, so I have nothing to say about that except, 'why?' when the above offerings are available.

    There have been very rare circumstances where carrying my Glock 19 doesn't mesh with what I am doing. Typically I am in a suit at that point, and I carry IWB strongside concealed by my suitjacket, and unless I have my P229 with a +2 magazine in it, nobody knows that I have that, even with a well tailored garment. Even so, I have wished for--and will soon acquire--a 'tuxedo' gun, if only to fulfill my James Bond look-a-like needs.

    Euro, carry whatever you can get away with. If that isn't a Glock 19, then it isn't a Glock 19. Personally, I think that if you had the right belt and holster, you'd probably do better than you think. That holster appears to lack the adjustments necessary to bury the gun deep enough in your belt line. Also, go eat a sammich (well, no bread, so maybe a steak) and get under that barbell, bruh. Makes disappearing guns easier.

    Finally: The whole thread diversion regarding .22LR should really split off into it's own thread. There's already like 6 pages of debate about a topic that is tangentially related, but not directly related to Euro's post about concealment and pocket guns. Caliber is not really directly involved in a debate about making something disappear on your waistline.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyblake View Post
    Exactly. Buying and carrying an RMR'd G17 is super sexy and empowering. There are plenty of dudes that spend all their time online reading gun forums and going to the range. I'm not sure how many of them could perform basic CPR though.

    I've never shot anyone but I've delivered a baby in a house before an ambulance could arrive and I've saved a dude who was busy dying from drowning at the bottom of a pool.

    The gun culture creates extreme niche gear obsession driven by fear and the sexiness of the products.

    I'd say for most dudes - Become strong with a daily carried G43, G19, whatever you can actually carry, but don't obsess over it. Be able to run a 5k, squat twice your bodyweight, change a tire in the rain, stop a bleeding wound, and stay current on your CPR training.

    Or you could carry two RMR'd G17s, a backpack defibrillator and a 10lb fire extinguisher for that froyo run. Nothing wrong with it if you can rock it.
    Thus far, this is the best post in the whole thread.

  5. #155
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    [QUOTE=Firefly;2597353]
    4325,

    May I ask you what you think the real physical difference/advantage that an "aggressive assailant fighting back" has with regards to the ballistic capability of the cartridge in question?

    Will it make his skin harder? His organs more resilient? His bones more dense?

    Adrenalin is one thing but your average hood is not exactly trained to ignore pain or to persevere.
    it doesnt matter how long it takes a passive person to die or become incapacitated...they arent trying to harm you
    it matters a great deal how long it takes a aggressive violent attacker (you know the kind of people you are shooting in a SD situation) to die/become incapacitated or simply stop what they are doing...that is the difference, how that is not self evident escapes me

    And if he is shooting at you, how does that make your ability to defend easier?
    it doesnt and i never said or implied it did so i dont understand the point you think you are making

    You want to stick on victims who were unaware and all. How much situational awareness do you really have all day, everyday?
    another strawman

    Bullets work both ways. I do not wish to be accusatory as you have remained civil, but I am curious how you are perceiving things.

    If you are caught off guard then you are caught off guard. It doesn't matter what you have in your holster.
    another strawman

    I am tired of reiterating and chasing these curveball rabbits down these tangential rabbitholes.

    At no point have I said a .22lr is 'ideal'. Only that it is still lethal, still quite common, and is better than nothing.

    Some people carry pocket pistols because that is all they are able. Some carry a .22.

    No they aren't at a deficit because a small bore gun is better than no gun or harsh language.
    at no point have i said its not lethal,common or better than nothing

    Either you want to be argumentative or you are just overlooking tge fact that it doesn't really matter what you are carrying or what you think.
    then why do you not carry a 22 or 25 at all times??? because it matters

    If several people accost you with handguns of varying calibers from .22 to .380; do you honestly feel like you have the advantage as a lone person with whatever gun and caliber you prefer? Especially if caught off guard.
    if i have a chance to bring a gun into play, absolutely (from experience) and so do you or you bother with a glock 19

    Most likely you will get injured, possibly killed. Go look at any number of gang shootings. They got the subject alone or isolated and killed him, or if multiple victims; they brought more people.
    and that legitimizes 22lr how???

    The only optimistic point is if you can regain initiative, most people will flee or submit once injured
    .

    agreed and a great way to regain initiative is by taking one or more out of the fight RFN...pretty much every caliber does that better than a 22

    So no. If you only have a .22lr you are not at a deficit vs. being unarmed. Your main deficit, irrespective of your weapon/caliber, is being alone vs a group. This is universal. Why do you think these people on the street go about in groups.
    we are not discussing unarmed vs 22 we are talking pocket guns, remember as far as the alone/group thing...straw man

    Why do you think police have radios to call for back up? If it gets bad enough, I can get the boots and the black gear rolling with rifles in the Bearcat.
    strawman

    I am not saying you think this way, but one almost gleans this High Noon mentality where you make it seem like a square fight and caliber decides the outcome.


    Is that how you think? Please clarify so I know where you are coming from.
    nope not at all

    Not everybody gets a real choice in weapon due to age or economic status.
    Most people living in bad areas are not going to carry Roland Specials or VP9SKs. They are going to get whatever gun they can afford while still being able to make rent, keep lights on, and have food.
    strawman

    Per Pocket Pistols (the original topic), the only 9mm really worth it is a G43. I feel like if I suggested a KelTec 9mm (which I wouldnt); you would criticise the quality of Kel Tec.
    i wouldnt choose a keltec but i know people who swear by them... as long as it works it works
    kahr pm/cm, snub 38s, lc9 just off the top of my head

    If I were relegated to a pocket pistol, I would sooner take the .22lr that would cycle over the 9mm that was only good for one shot. I am fortunate that I have a G19 and a snub .38, both I have trained with and am competent in using, and am not relegated to a smaller bore weapon. But if I were, universal tactics remain universal.
    not sure your point

    I still dont see where you are missing the boat that a .22 is better than nothing.

    The point really isn't that hard to grasp.
    i still dont see where you are coming up with that said or implied that, its simply less

    It didn't require attitude, contrarianism, or conflating one talking point with another.

    Again, still curious how you think an aggressive attacker changes the paradigm to where caliber matters more than tactics and survival.
    answered
    Unless you wear a IIIA soft vest everywhere; you are vulnerable too.
    strawman

    All I'm saying is take no bullet for granted or as a given and certainly don't make light of it
    never said different

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