Why all the hate for pocket guns?

[Kain]

I am going to second, or third, or fourth, whatever it is at this point that you do need to dress around the gun. I do actually CC a Glock 19 and an extra 17rd mag. Granted, I do carry it strong side. Tried the AIWB thing, did not care for it. Preference there.

I will also say that I have pulled, err, well popped retention on my pistol, before while out and about. About the time things looked like they were going to go loud and I grabbed my 19 the two would be dirtbags turned and burned. However, as Fly pointed out, common sense, if I hadn't been hitting the ATM at 8PM I might have been fine.

Anyway, on the original topic of pocket pistols, I don't know if I can say I hate them. I do think that for a lot of situations I would want something with more capability. That doesn't mean necessarily capacity though, it means being able to make my hits and the distances that I may need to engage a threat. A little pocket .380 is more of a Jesus gun to me than something I would want to go into a gun fight with. A Glock 43, might be different since I have not messed much with them. But I would want to be able to make reliable hits at at least 25 yards, if not further, which is why I tend to ignore smaller pocket guns, not because the shots can't be made, I just can't make them as easily as I can with something like my 19, so there is that first, and then secondly the issue with I just don't like going below a 9mm.

And at risk of sounding like a broken record, but since we echo it so often, mission drives the gear. What are you needing from your gear? What are you wanting it to do? What are your circumstances. Euro, you're not an idiot. You know this shit. And when the hell did you start caring what the internet thought about your carry piece? If the 43 works for you ain't know one going to question it. At least you aren't rocking a NAA revolver like some I have known.

[hotrodder636]

No hate here for pocket guns. To me there is a fine line for “dress around the gun”, that is not always feasible but a small “pocket pistol” is. That is why I got an S&W Shield, not a total pocket gun but gives me more options than a G19 or VP9.

[WillBrink]

A) How do you guys conceal this shit?
B) Why do people rag on the smaller guns? It makes no sense to say "I'd rather have 16 rounds than 7", because for me it's "I'd rather have 7 rounds than zero."

I'd say there's more people who carry "pocket" guns regularly/semi regularly than there are ragging on them. Personally, I'm more focused on caliber vs size of the gun per se. Friends don't let friends CCW .380

[ramairthree]

For me, I have a limit that I find shootable and usable.

I spent most of my life in full sized service pistol territory.
With the G19 as an option for all that fire power in a smaller package.
Guns like the Beretta 92C and Centurion just were not enough of a drop in size to the full sized for me to find all that desireable.

The G19 was.

When I first tried a G26 right when they came out I hated it.
I love it with the plus two.

So, basically, guns like the G26, 9000s (with regard to size, it otherwise sucks), CZ P01, RAMI with baseplate, 6906 (and I just missed a 6944 by like ten minutes at the LGS for 300 bucks),
I find to be useful and ergonomic without giving up too much, and smaller enough to make a difference in concealability.

When you get smaller than that, I neither enjoy nor am that good at shooting them.
I don’t find them that much smaller for concealability.

If I am out and about in UDT shorts or Ranger panties and an extra tight fitting mesh T shirt or tank top and can’t conceal them,
I probably have other stuff to worry about.

[flenna]

grizzyblake,

A lot of truth in your post. Most people will never have to draw down on another person in anger. You should be prepared, by all means. But the likelihood is quite low.

A lot of old salts toted hammerless smiths or 380s as BUGs and thought nothing of it. Even derringers.

I think there is this James Yeager mentality to keep people spun up and afraid of everything and cite some freak occurrence as a regular and pervasive threat to justify being caustic and unnecessarily aggressive. And in turn it feeds on this urge people these days have to want to magically be Mclane from Die Hard if TSHTF.

However, I wont downplay home invasions. They have gotten a bit more brazen and depending on who is busting in on you; maybe an AR with a D60 isnt a bad idea.

But for just going to the mall or out to a FroYo stand; and 6 shot handgun is going to be more than enough.

95% of any potential hazard can be avoided by picking where you are going and what time. Honestly, the internet has made it easier than ever to be a recluse.

I can just add to cart or stream it. If I do go somewhere, it is usually where I am known and have no issues.

But again this James Yeager, Active Self Protection schtick of making it seem like going to Publix is akin to heading off to Hamburger Hill is lame.

So tote your "mouse guns" with confidence. FWIW, it is kind of a morbid analogy but Nazi Officers toted Baby Brownings or Czech pocket pistols out to dinner in uniform and had folks in the Resistance with LeMats or stolen Schmeissers or bombs out to get them.

I think you'll be fine heading to Wally World with your G43

Good advice ^^^. When I was on the job my off duty carry load was different than it is now for me. What goes with me now in t-shirt weather? My S&W 940. Cooler weather with heavier clothing? My G30. Do I feel undergunned? Never.

[Jesse H]

My wife would love it if I wore all the Express and Banana Republic Clothes she buys for me. Instead they hang in the closet and I wear stuff that's comfortable and helps conceal a G19 IWB. I'm married with kids and stopped trying to look pretty a long time ago. Dammit, I turned into my dad.

[SeriousStudent]

I do not hate pocket/other pocket/ankle/jacket/topcoat/tuxedo guns - I own 14 of them.

[MountainRaven]

I love that everybody ragging on the people ragging on pocket guns are saying that it's a "modern" thing. That it's guys like James Yeager saying it. Or that it's "fear driven".

Yeah-no.

Ken Hackathorn and Clint Smith - both of whom were instructors at the original Gunsite - are both proponents of carrying full-size fighting pistols. Clint Smith is so much so, that his BUG is another full-size handgun (a Glock 17 when he's carrying a Glock 17 - a 1911 when he's carrying a 1911).

Why? Because the ability of most shooters to effectively employ small guns like the Glock 43 is marginal compared to their ability to use something like a Glock 19 or a 1911. And even highly skilled shooters like Hackathorn and Smith recognize the benefits for someone of their competence and skill level.

From one of the m4c newsletters written by Ken Hackathorn:
"For the vast number of students signing up for classes these days it is CCW as a primary role for handgun, and home defense for a carbine. If your handgun is purely a CCW requirement, always select your sidearm on a 'worse case scenario'. For example, while everyone wants to believe that they will be faced with a threat less than six feet away with a target torso the size of an NFL lineman, how will you and your pocket 380 or 2" 38 special five shot do at 8 yards when you have to make a head shot? Not likely you say? What if the creep has your wife or child as a hostage, and he is only five yards away? Are you and your pocket rocket up to the job?
"For far too many people, comfort and concealment over-take competence. So before you select that small 380 or 38 spec, consider why you need the gun and what your worst-case needs may be."

And

"Let's be real here about all those folks that carry these little .22, .25, .32 & 380 pocket guns: they are perfect self-defense guns as long as they never need them! Luckily, most people that carry guns will probably never need to use them, thus a little blaster will work just fine. I get it, any gun is better than a sharp stick, but, if you ever need to defend yourself or your family, you want a gun that you can shoot accurately and effectively under stress."

Clint Smith (NSFW - starts at 1:25):


ETA: If you're having issues carrying a Glock 19 AIWB, you might try different holsters. It might be that AIWB just doesn't work for you. In which case you should try traditional behind the hip carry. And if you still can't do it, try adjusting your wardrobe. I had no issues concealing an H&K P30 under a tight-fitting polo shirt, back when I was about 40 pounds lighter.

[1168]

I know Clint is a “SME”, but seriously, 2 G17’s?

Also, genuine question; how often are civilians shooting hostage takers? I’m not sure if this is as uncommon as I expect.

[MountainRaven]

I know Clint is a “SME”, but seriously, 2 G17’s?

Also, genuine question; how often are civilians shooting hostage takers? I’m not sure if this is as uncommon as I expect.

Two G17s.



As for how often are civilians shooting hostage takers? Well, you have to remember that Ken said worst case scenario. If you're playing the odds game, then you should remember:

"[M]ost people that carry guns will probably never need to use them[.]"

Yeah, you're pretty unlikely to need to take a headshot on someone who is holding a loved one (or anyone) hostage. But you're pretty unlikely to need to use a gun, ever. The reason we carry handguns isn't because we think we're likely to need them, it's because if you walk around with a rifle or a shotgun, you will be asked awkward questions by men in similar outfits with guns and kevlar waistcoats and tiny, shiny shields on their breasts.