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Thread: Are you REALLY prepared for the SHTF?

  1. #1
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    Are you REALLY prepared for the SHTF?

    Many years ago, I read a thread on another forum featuring advice from allegedly an actual survivor of the carnage in Bosnia. I'll try to find a link to that article again, but this morning I ran across a chilling reminder of that thread from years ago, and how most people are not prepared mentally for how it will be.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ence-when-shtf

    If you don’t know Selco, he’s from Bosnia and he lived through a year in a city that was blockaded with no utilities, no deliveries of supplies, and no services. In his interviews, he shares what the scenarios the rest of us theorize about were REALLY like. He mentioned to me recently that most folks aren’t prepared for the violence that is part and parcel of a collapse, which brings us to today’s interview.
    Out of fear and hate, violence grows easy and fast, and over the very short period of time you see how people around you (including you) do things that you could not imagine before.

    I can say that violence was almost an everyday thing in the whole spectrum of different activities because it was a fight for survival.

    Again, whenever (and wherever) you put people in a region without enough resources, you can expect violence.

    We were living a normal life, and then suddenly we were thrown in a way of living where if you could not “negotiate” something with someone, you solve the problem by launching a rocket from an RPG through the window of his living room.

    Hate stripped down the layers of humanity and suddenly it was “normal” to level an apartment building with people inside with shells from a tank or form private prisons with imprisoned civilians for slave work or sex slaves.

    Nothing that I saw or read before could have prepared me for the level of violence and blindness to it, for the lives of kids, elders, civilians, and the innocent.

    Again, the thing that is important for readers is that we were a modern society one day, and then in few weeks it turned into carnage.
    Fighting of the armies through the whole period of war brings violence in terms of constant shelling from a distance from different kind of weapons.

    For example a few multiple rocket launchers (VBR) could bring in 30 seconds the destruction in an area of 3-4 apartment buildings, and being there in that moment and surviving it gives you a completely new view on life.

    Snipers were a constant threat and over time you simply grow a way of living that you constant scan area in front of you where your next steps gonna be. Are you gonna be visible and from where? Etc.
    Most brutal violence was actually lawlessness and complete lack of order between different factions and militias, so in some periods there were militias or gangs who simply ruled the cities or part of the city where they were absolutely masters of everything in terms of deciding of taking someone’s life.

    In lawlessness, you as one person could be really small and not interesting, or join some bigger group of people to be stronger, some family or militia or gang.
    In any society, no matter where you are living, there are a great number of people who are waiting for the SHTF to go out and do violent things. Small time criminals or simply violent persons who are not openly violent because system is there to punish them for that. It is like that.

    Some gang leaders that I knew were actually completely sick people with a strange type of charisma that makes people follow them, weird situations that can happen only in a real collapse.

    They are people who just waited for their time to rise.

    Those kinds of people together with criminal organization that are already there in any city in the world will be the backbone of SHTF gangs.
    the most likely victims were people who had interesting things without enough defense.

    But it was not always that simple.

    For example one of the first houses that got raided in my neighborhood, right at the beginning of collapse while there was still some kind of order, was a rich family’s home.

    They had a nice house with bars on the windows, a pretty good setup for defense, and they had enough people inside so they could give pretty good resistance to the mob.

    But they got raided simply because they were known that they are rich, so they were attacked with enough force to be overwhelmed.

    It was not only about how much manpower you had and how well-organized defense of your home was, it was also about how juicy a target you were.

    If you are faced with 150 angry people attacking your home because they are sure you have good stuff inside your chances are low, no matter how good and tough you are.
    TAKE NOTE OF THIS ONE:

    People who were alone were a pretty easy target and old people without support of family or friends.
    ADVICE:

    Do not be interesting (or attract attention) when the SHTF.

    This means a lot of things, for this article I can give a few examples with shortened explanations because it is a huge topic:

    Do not look like a prepper (before or after SHTF). There is no sense in announcing that you are prepping for EMP, civil collapse, apocalypse, or whatever. With that you are risking the probability that when the SHTF, people will remember that you have interesting things in your home
    Your home should look ordinary. For example, if you are living in the city on a street where all houses look similar, there is not much sense in making your home look like a fortress. You’ll just attract attention.
    Your defense should be based on more subtle means. Some examples are having means to reinforce doors and windows quickly when you need it, or to reinforce them from inside. Make changes in your yard to funnel possible attackers where you want them to be (trees, fence, bush…). You can make your home look abandoned or already looted.
    Think about what survival is!

    Survival is about staying alive, it is not about being comfortable at the expense of losing your life.
    have seen many times people lose their lives simply because they were too attached to their belongings (house, car, land, goods…) so they simply did not want to leave something and run in a particular moment.

    Everything can be earned and bought again except life.

    Forget about statements like “I will defend it with my life” or “over my dead body” or similar because the real SHTF is usually not heroic or noble. It is hard and brutal. When you are gone you are gone and there might be nobody to take care of your family just because you have been stubborn or trusted in movies when it came to violence.

    To rephrase it: Be ready to leave your home in a split second if that means you and your family will survive, no matter how many good things you have stored there.
    n a way, it is impossible to be ready for violence, especially widespread violence when the SHTF, but you can minimize shock when that happens with some things.

    If you are not familiar with what violence is, you can try to get yourself close” to it today (in normal times). It can be done, for example, by doing some voluntary work for example in a local hospital, ER or similar… or simply by working with homeless people.

    Sounds maybe strange but activities like this can get you a bit of a feeling of what it is all about, not to mention that you can learn some practical and useful skills for SHTF.
    This is why you need TRAINING. Learn it, live it, BE IT.

    You should own a weapon and know how to use it. You should practice with it, or have at least some basic knowledge about hand-to-hand combat.

    The worst case scenario is to have a weapon that you try for the first time when SHTF.

    Be familiar with your means for defense, let your family members know what they need to do in case of attack of your home, have plan, and go through it.

    Only through practice will you minimize chances for mistakes.
    And for you Rambo types:

    Truth is that in a real collapse, a lot of things are kind of blurred and you are not sure who the bad guys are. Good guys turn out to be lunatic gang members who want to bring food to their kids.

    There are no super heroes when SHTF, and if some of them show up they end up dead quickly.

    There is only you and your skills and mindset and what you prepared.

    Use violence as a last resort because of the simple fact that by using violence you are risking of getting killed or hurt. Remember when SHTF there is maybe no doctor or hospital to take care of your wound.

    It is a time when even a small cut can eventually kill you through infection and lack of proper care.
    Why the country might be better than the city:

    City meant more people less resources, country (rural) meant less people more resources, and because that level of violence simply was lower.
    There are few more reasons why it was much better in the country.

    People in the country (rural settings) were much more “connected to ground” they were more tough if you like, they grew their own food, had cattle, lived more simple life prior SHTF and when everything collapsed they had less problems getting use to it.

    Yes they also did not have electricity and phones, running water or connection to other places but they adapted easier to the new life because they had more useful skills then people in the city.

    Life was harder for them too than prior to the collapse, but they had means to get resources: land, woods, river…

    Another thing is that people in small rural communities “in the country” were more connected to each other, people knew their neighborhood and some things were easier to organize, like community security watch, help in case of diseases and similar.
    My take: realizing not everyone lives in the country, this is why a bug out plan is good.

    Good advice is : you need to have a weapon that most people have around you because of multiple reasons: spare parts, repairing, ammunition availability, possibility that you can pick that rifle from other people and you know how to use it.

    What caliber and similar is a matter of discussion again. I am talking from the point of owning a rifle.
    My take: this is the ne plus ultra of why the AR beats the AK: availability of ammo, parts, etc. The AR is America's rifle. Likely other people nearby have AR's, ammo, mags, parts, etc. If you have an AK or SKS or something else, it may go down and not get back up.

    Contrary to some popular beliefs in the prepper community, the point is to use violence only as a last solution.

    The reason is as I mentioned already, the risk that you can be hurt or killed too, but also once you do violence you change your own rules, or push it more forward, and it is easy to get lost in violence.

    There are consequences to that, and you are not going to be the same person ever again.

    Violence is a tool, not a toy. You need to know how to use it as best as possible, but also to avoid using it when it is not necessary.

    It is a good idea to set up a clear set of rules (mentally too) when you are gonna use violence and to try to stick to it.

    For example you will use weapon if someone tries to break your home and attack you, and you need to be ready to do that without hesitation.
    Think with your head and research.

    One thing that is absolutely important when it comes to understanding how violent it is going to be and what can you expect in your own case of SHTF, is to understand how much media can influence people in making their decisions about violence.

    In my case, the media built up situation where people feared so much from other people that they actually hated them. They hated them so much that they actually strip them down from humanity.

    In a real-life example, it works in a way that people killed other people, including kids and women, because they hated them so much because media told them.

    It may look ridiculous and not possible to you, and you might again think “that can not happen here” but please trust your own resources, look for independent information, not mainstream media, in order to get the right information about what is really happening in the beginning of collapse.

    Do not be pulled into “popular opinion” just because the “man from TV” (whoever he might be) told you so.

    It is easier today. Because of the internet, you have much more choices for correct information than in my time. But still be careful, you might find yourself rioting together with 500 people just because you trusted some media.
    My take: I don't want this thread to turn political, but isn't this what the MSM in America is doing right now?



    There are many other good links at the main article. Please try to follow the link and read the rest of it. It's really too much to quote all of it here in my opinion.

  2. #2
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    I don't get into the SHTF scenarios, like some people, but its something I keep in the back of my mind. I feel like a lot of people get too hardcore and over-exaggerated with the coming doom. I liked this post, mainly because its from someone who experienced the collapse of a society first hand and detailed what really happens. It's truly sad how frail society is in certain cities, towns, neighborhoods, and countries. We, in the US, act like we are above all this or assume a situation of total anarchy can't and won't happen here...you just never know. But like Selco states, be educated, be kind, and train. Does not hurt to be prepared and mindful of the SHTF scenario.

    Thanks Doc for the interesting read.

  3. #3
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    I take everything I read on the internet with a grain of salt, but this is probably the more (if not most) legitimate take on the matter that I have come across. Sure lots of "tactical" types give advice on the matter, but to hear it from Joe Citizen who ACTUALLY lived through it is invaluable. Me personally, I don't actively "plan" for this type of thing but I do keep a few extra supplies stashed and take it into consideration regarding certain decisions or purchases.

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    Another good read about a less intense situation is the write up by Ferfal about the 2001 Economic Collapse in Argentina. It used to be a series of blog posts but now he has released a book.

    http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2018/01/n...reat-free.html
    Last edited by mack7.62; 02-14-18 at 11:44.

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    My take: this is the ne plus ultra of why the AR beats the AK: availability of ammo, parts, etc. The AR is America's rifle. Likely other people nearby have AR's, ammo, mags, parts, etc. If you have an AK or SKS or something else, it may go down and not get back up.

    This I don't really get hung up on this.
    -AK ammo is just as common.
    -It's just as likely that other people near by have AKs and mags.
    -Parts? The only parts I know of are online. No stores stock any serious parts.....unless you need extra rails, pistol grips or rail covers..... and a SHTF chances are your store will be looted anyway so once again it comes to what you had prior to your SHTF.

    You can have simple Glocks or complicated CZs....if you don't have the parts once SHTF then it doesn't matter

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Arik; 02-14-18 at 14:51.

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    Good article. I think we have seen a small bit of that with Katrina, Ferguson, Baltimore, LA (Rodney King era). The feral "citizens" in the cities are ready at a moment's notice for SHTF- look how fast they can get a riot going.
    Philippians 2:10-11

    To argue with a person who renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. ~ Thomas Paine

    “The greatest conspiracy theory is the notion that your government cares about you”- unknown.

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    Read this article earlier today, thought it was fantastic. I've tried to live by the advice he gives concerning keeping a low profile, not advertising what I have, and finally keeping a close nit group of families in my inner circle. All of the guys I keep in the loop are no strangers to violence, most are current LEO and former Military with multiple deployments. I myself am neither, but I've known most of these guys just about my entire life and I know I can count on them in a SHTF situation. I've trained with them and have sucked up any nugget of knowledge they've thrown my way. I know that if i had to, I could have the truck ready to go with everything we'd need to survive for at least three months and get down to one of my buddies places situated in a more rural local.

    Hopefully it'll never come down to that, but being prepared is half the battle.

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    No, because preparing for anything more than several weeks of civil unrest + interruption of services and supplies is unrealistic and a waste of money and resources.

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    In a COMWEC, with two invalid relatives to deal with, right now my only real hope is that somebody better prepared is willing to barter my white-collar skill, manual labor and an extra body to Stand the Watch for taking us under their aegis--every prep I attempt one or the other of the Old Ones sabotages, and turning one's back on family... that just don't fly. (Not to mention they INSIST on remaining uncomfortably close to the Concrete Jungle...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    In a COMWEC, with two invalid relatives to deal with, right now my only real hope is that somebody better prepared is willing to barter my white-collar skill, manual labor and an extra body to Stand the Watch for taking us under their aegis--every prep I attempt one or the other of the Old Ones sabotages, and turning one's back on family... that just don't fly. (Not to mention they INSIST on remaining uncomfortably close to the Concrete Jungle...)
    I don't live my life around a SHTF scenario, but I am ready as I can be for an earthquake since I live in CA or KA. if a SHTF like The Road, then nope, but who would be...

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