Pistol range week at a large agency's academy

[T2C]

I have been traveling this week and spoke to the owner of a small gun shop near St. Louis this morning. He showed me a Gen 5 Glock 17 he had for sale and cautioned against running factory 147g FMJ ammunition through it without first doing some testing. He told me a shooter had difficulty pulling the slide to the rear to show clear after a stage at a pistol match and the projectile was pulled from the case. He told me the 147g factory cartridges were tried in other Gen 5 Glock 17s and some had the same issue. It was concluded the "chamber was cut tight." The consensus among competitors was to shoot ammunition with projectiles 135g and lighter.

It sounds like the leade was cut shorter on this particular Gen 5 Glock 17 than the leade on Gen 4s are normally cut. I view that as an advantage when loading accurate cartridges used in competition. I am going to pick up a Gen 5 Glock 17 before Glock makes any changes.

[26 Inf]

Thanks for posting.

How common is dropping mags on concrete during "standard" training?

Seems to me it will lead to malfunctions during later training or during an actual defense/duty encounter.

Although if the guns were for training only and would never see duty use that's another matter.

Anyway, official and non-official live-fire training/courses I've taken always involved a soft surface. (Mudd, grass, clay, sand, or dirt)

I prefer a level surface for working with multiple students. Our maximum load was 16 students per relay and we shot regardless of temperature or snowfall. Concrete has disadvantages - magazines, and pre-cancerous lesions for the instructors who are on the surface all day (LOL) but the safety advantages when teaching any type of movement drills to the masses makes it worthwhile.

Plus, when it snows concrete clears much easier and with less mess than a grass surface. The maintenance guys were always effing up the grass surface on out 'tactical range' when they tried to clear it so we could shoot metal and movers, not their fault, just the nature of the beast.

I found Glock mags to be the most robust mags for use on concrete surfaces. We always had mags exploding when dropped onto the concrete, generally metal mags, with plastic floor plates. Beretta used a pot metal floor plate for a while that didn't hold up very well.

During the first couple days during stand in one place shooting drills, officers could put pieces of carpet (show room samples) where their mags were likely to land.

I get your concern with the rough treatment on concrete maybe causing problems with mags down the road, that is why we recommended training mags.

[T2C]

Thanks for posting.

How common is dropping mags on concrete during "standard" training?

Seems to me it will lead to malfunctions during later training or during an actual defense/duty encounter.

Although if the guns were for training only and would never see duty use that's another matter.

Anyway, official and non-official live-fire training/courses I've taken always involved a soft surface. (Mudd, grass, clay, sand, or dirt)

When I was involved in training substantial numbers of sworn personnel, we ran students through 40 hour pistol courses on concrete and gravel surfaces. Round counts were well over 1,000 for each student. Magazines were dropped on hard surfaces several times per hour. Magazines with metal bottoms and Glock magazines had no issues with breakages. The magazines looked skinned up a bit at the end of the week, but they still functioned.

[Bodhi]

When I was involved in training substantial numbers of sworn personnel, we ran students through 40 hour pistol courses on concrete and gravel surfaces. Round counts were well over 1,000 for each student. Magazines were dropped on hard surfaces several times per hour. Magazines with metal bottoms and Glock magazines had no issues with breakages. The magazines looked skinned up a bit at the end of the week, but they still functioned.

Oh yeah they still function for sure.

I have 5 VP9 mags and i don't classify them as "training mags" vs "duty mags."

If the thought to classify them came through my mind, i wouldn't be using a VP9.

[ST911]

Magazines are a critical part of a gun's reliability and inexpensive. Vet a batch of magazines for carry, and dedicate a second for practice and abuse. It may not be a necessity, but it's a good idea.

[Bodhi]

Magazines are a critical part of a gun's reliability and inexpensive. Vet a batch of magazines for carry, and dedicate a second for practice and abuse. It may not be a necessity, but it's a good idea.

Well gents, perhaps I'll number them. I actually found another mag. So now I have two that have been dropped several times and four good ones. Thanks for the insight

[Coal Dragger]

Fortunately for you HK pistol mags tend to be pretty robust.

[joeg26er]

How full are the mags that failed?

I've only ever dropped mostly or less often fully expended mags when changing.

[Bodhi]

How full are the mags that failed?

I've only ever dropped mostly or less often fully expended mags when changing.

Both of those mag issues happened with empty magazines.

[T2C]

Magazines are a critical part of a gun's reliability and inexpensive. Vet a batch of magazines for carry, and dedicate a second for practice and abuse. It may not be a necessity, but it's a good idea.

This is a very good point. Our agency had a large supply of extra magazine plates and springs. Magazines were frequently checked and repaired or replaced at the first hint of being problematic.