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Thread: Back up iron sites, need opinions.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    yeah...never mind

    bottom line...Troy, MBUS Pro, MBUS, or nothing. All personal preference based on your needs, real or perceived. All good. IMHO, if you believe you need BUIS, MBUS is cost-effective and almost certainly "good enough" for civilian riflemen.
    I agree with this. IIRC I paid 270ish for my set of ARMS 40's. Never again. I do like the ARMS 71's which is their polymer copy of the 40L's with a different release. They are on my wife's rifle, and while I shoot it more than she does I haven't put them to much use - I zeroed them for her to get a starting point for her zero.

  2. #102
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    deleted repeated post
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 03-14-18 at 21:17.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by THORN74 View Post
    Thanx, I only started this tread to get a few opinions on the irons I was considering. Not weather I should get them or not, as that decision was already made.

    Really people, this ship is way off course.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    For what it all worth, I’m a fan of the regular-guy Magpul BUIS system. They’re inexpensive and no, they’re not exactly KAC but they’ll get the job done.
    Last edited by Achilles11B; 03-14-18 at 20:28.

  4. #104
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    The AR I use for what hours bump in the night has a short barrel. There is room for either a weapon light, or a front sight. It has a weapon light. In the grand scheme of things, BUIS are low on my list of priorities.

    I don't care for the plastic Magpul BUIS. I know their primary mission is to be deployed when the optic goes down and usually at short range, but the set I had would not hold zero. The rear BUIS I like is the KAC 200/600 flip up.
    The number of folks on my Full Of Shit list grows everyday

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creature View Post
    I am not a "sunny day" range shooter. I have shot on many occasions in very inclement weather, including snow and heavy rain, using carbines equipped exclusively with optics.

    Never once did I NOT get a sight picture on a target using an optic because of bad weather. I shot one particular course of fire where I ended up covered head to toe in mud and debris using a carbine equipped with a Leupold DDP. Guess what? That little optic gave me ZERO issues. The only problems I actually experienced was with my eye pro. In fact, I have since removed my Aimpoint H1 on my go-to carbine in favor of the DPP. It performed that well.

    So, I imaging weather that is severe enough to down either of these two optics would also down irons.
    ....
    Well, to be fair, I wasn't trying to single you out specifically with the "sunny day" comment, but it's good to hear that optic is working out for you- it's actually something I was considering for another build.
    On the flip side, I have seen, personally, budget optics poo out in far less severe weather/use than you mentioned. To be fair, your Leupold Deltapoint is a $300-something dollar optic (pre-mount costs), that IMHO had damn well better perform being in the price bracket of a PRO.... a far cry from the $150 PA/Holosun you mentioned previously as trustworthy enough to run standalone.

    My issue is NOT with the idea that optics can be run effectively without backup sights- clearly there are plenty of folks doing so.

    My issue is the fact that 1) given a few ounces of BUIS won't change the weight or balance of a rifle in any significant way, I see no reason to promote not having them when a basic MBUS set can be had for under $100. One does not need to use "SHTF" or some other fantastical situation to see the benefits of being able to continue using your firearm effectively if there's an optic failure.

    And 2) most people running standalone optics and having success *beyond* sunny day range shooters, are using decent optics- Acogs, Aimpoints, mid/high-end variables, etc etc- not the "budget clones of better optics".... The cheaper one goes with their optics, the higher the likelihood of needing backups, in which case deliberately choosing to leave them off (or not just buying a better optic to start with) is a poor choice.

    That's all I'm saying- the idea of standalone optics isn't "wrong", it's just not right to make a blanket application of it to all optics and situations, any more than it would be for me to demand everyone mount BUIS....
    Last edited by Jellybean; 03-16-18 at 15:38.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellybean View Post
    Well, to be fair, I wasn't trying to single you out specifically with the "sunny day" comment, but it's good to hear that optic is working out for you- it's actually something I was considering for another build.
    On the flip side, I have seen, personally, budget optics poo out in far less severe weather/use than you mentioned. To be fair, your Leupold Deltapoint is a $300-something dollar optic (pre-mount costs), that IMHO had damn well better perform being in the price bracket of a PRO.... a far cry from the $150 PA/Holosun you mentioned previously as trustworthy enough to run standalone.

    My issue is NOT with the idea that optics can be run effectively without backup sights- clearly there are plenty of folks doing so.

    My issue is the fact that 1) given a few ounces of BUIS won't change the weight or balance of a rifle in any significant way, I see no reason to promote not having them when a basic MBUS set can be had for under $100. One does not need to use "SHTF" or some other fantastical situation to see the benefits of being able to continue using your firearm effectively if there's an optic failure.

    And 2) most people running standalone optics and having success *beyond* sunny day range shooters, are using decent optics- Acogs, Aimpoints, mid/high-end variables, etc etc- not the "budget clones of better optics".... The cheaper one goes with their optics, the higher the likelihood of needing backups, in which case deliberately choosing to leave them off (or not just buying a better optic to start with) is a poor choice.

    That's all I'm saying- the idea of standalone optics isn't "wrong", it's just not right to make a blanket application of it to all optics and situations, any more than it would be for me to demand everyone mount BUIS....
    No one is demanding anyone do anything. The idea that gets thrown around here and in other gun forums is that "Not having a BUIS on your rifle will get you killed on the streets!" mentality, which is just false.

  7. #107
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    I use and have used different "optics" and for ME, use fixed FSB and either Magpul Pro or Troy Fixed depending on application. I have seen some awesome guys and gals use ONLY optics or ONLY irons. Whatever. If you worry about optic failure, you probably need different optics but I use irons too anyway. YMMV

  8. #108
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    I mostly use red dot, holo or scopes on my ARs and only practice with BUIS enough to maintain some level of proficiency just in case they're ever needed. That said, I have a few different types of BUIS. Magpul (polymer) BUIS and (metal) Pro, Troy BS, DD Fixed rear and Matech BUIS both used with F marked FSB, and KAC Micros. In my experience, the inexpensive Magpul BUIS do a great job. I find them to be accurate and reliable. At 300M+ KAC for sure. (I haven't tried my Matech's out that far yet, so no comment at this point.)
    “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
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  9. #109
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    I can't add anything to the why or should topic, but after what I put my 5.56 ranch rifle through with MBUSs the past several years I'd not hesitate to use them in any situation. Never loose never lost zero can't imagine being less kind to a rifle than I have this one.
    Last edited by sasquatchoslav; 03-17-18 at 18:51.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    No one is demanding anyone do anything. The idea that gets thrown around here and in other gun forums is that "Not having a BUIS on your rifle will get you killed on the streets!" mentality, which is just false.
    EXACTLY.

    I have a hard time understanding shooters that stroll up to the firing line with a $150 reddot as their primary sighting system on their rifle that also wears $250+ worth of BUIS. Get a solid optic and call it a day.

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