Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 52

Thread: “Can Venezuela Be Saved?” great NYT article

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21,919
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)

    “Can Venezuela Be Saved?” great NYT article

    This is an excellent article on the situation in Venezuela with intel dump as to how it ended up as it did, for those who may not have tracked this disaster. I highly recommend reading it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/m...-be-saved.html

    As good as it is, one glaring omission by that writer, the 2012 gun ban for all citizens. I sent an LTE below in hopes they have the nads to publish it. I will not hold my breath, but I felt it worth a shot, no pun intended. Did I miss any major points? I did not use facts and figures intentionally as it does not tend to be effective in my experience with the intended audience:


    Dear Editor. I read with great interest “Can Venezuela Be Saved?” By WIL S. HYLTON, MARCH 1, 2018. In particular, it was the most thorough in its attempt to give the reader a background how and why Venezuela is in its current predicament and getting worse. I spend time in countries such as Panama, and Colombia, and speak with Venezuelans who have had to leave their country. Some tell me it’s even worse than many know via the media, and it saddens me greatly. As thorough as that article was, it seemed to ignore a major piece of the puzzle. The article states “Venezuela is a heavily armed society and increasingly violent. To invite a military intervention is to welcome civil war.”

    That is not an accurate statement. An accurate statement would be “In Venezuela, criminals, the police, and the military, are heavily armed.” In 2012, in face of rising crime, the Chavez government banned ownership of firearms by private citizens, and offered an amnesty program.(1) The result was law abiding citizens, not wanting to be criminals, turned in the majority of their firearms by the tens of thousands, leaving, predictably criminals, the police, and military armed. The result of that? Crime went from bad to worse, per capita murders rates - with firearms no less - went up, and those stats are easy to find, so I will not repeat them here.

    A classic playbook from history repeats itself, a socialistic revolutionary savior, who passes sweeping laws, followed by disarming the population, “for their own good” no less, and resulting in a dictatorship and no means to resist it. That plan has been followed by so many past leaders, I lose count, yet it appears to work over and over as people ignore their history, and we all know what they say of those who ignore history... At this point, I agree that military intervention is not the solution, but sadly again, as history shows, civil war has been what results to finally dislodge a dictatorship. No one “welcomes” civil war, but unfortunately, and historically, there was no other choice left to the people to regain their freedoms.

    To conclude, would the civilian population having access to firearms resulted in preventing that total loss of democracy and resulting dictatorship that now has total control? We will never know. No one however can argue the citizens of Venezuela are better off post gun ban, not by the stats, nor as it applied to history, not by any Venezuelan you’d speak to. Yes, civil wars are horrible events to be avoided at all costs if possible, and one of the reasons a government may not attempt to take total control is due to a well-armed citizenry, hence why governments historically disarm its citizens before making their bid for total control, usually under the guise of public safety. That’s exactly what happened in Venezuela, and yet, it’s not even mentioned in the media nor in an otherwise excellent piece by Mr. Hylton.

    The unfortunate reality is, the citizenry of Venezuela have been put in the worst possible spot, where only criminals, the police, and the military have access to arms, and they will either need to develop an armed resistance and take back their nation, or they can sit there and hope there’s a peaceful changeover, while they starve, die of diseases not seen in many decades, flee their own country, or die from lack of simple medical care. I hope with every cell in my body a peaceful change takes place in that country full of wonderful people, but history does not bode well for that.

    My heart goes out to the people of Venezuela but I suspect the world will sit back and let a major humanitarian crises continue its slow steady decent into hell for its citizens and no means of resistance, be it from common criminals or their own government. In that end, that costs far more human lives than the alternatives. As a true national savior once said:

    “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” - Winston S. Churchill

    (1) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430
    Last edited by WillBrink; 03-18-18 at 15:19.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    4,719
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Why do you think they care about facts and logic?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21,919
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Business_Casual View Post
    Why do you think they care about facts and logic?
    I did my best to avoid hard facts and too much logic and used baby steps and some emotional triggers where possible
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hamburg PA
    Posts
    3,506
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I was on another forum where there was talk about saving the place. However it involved something out of Executive Outcomes play book and by the end started to sound like a CIA black op recruitment operation.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

    "Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent

    "Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21,919
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    I was on another forum where there was talk about saving the place. However it involved something out of Executive Outcomes play book and by the end started to sound like a CIA black op recruitment operation.
    Seems like that approach has had more net fails than successes, but the Chinese and Russians are there (article discusses ) and that's a matter of national security for us, so some sort of play may be warranted. Maybe an A Team or 12 and arms to help develop a legit resistance? I think direct action via foreign mil will galvanize them resist, and we don't wanna get into that. I have had a number of Venezuelans tell me they wish the US would intervene as we did in Panama, but that's people outside the country looking in and us showing up assuming we will be seen as liberators didn't work out so great in Iraq and assuming it a bad idea. I tend to think a large % of the mil, population, and power brokers would be happy we were there, but not willing to put US lives on the line to find out. The 2012 gun ban made sure the citizens didn't have anything to resist with per my LTE.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in the Sierras
    Posts
    2,026
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Will, I think that was an excellent letter. I fear it's lost on deaf ears and irrational actors entrenched in their own echo chambers. However, an excellent letter nevertheless.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21,919
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by soulezoo View Post
    Will, I think that was an excellent letter. I fear it's lost on deaf ears and irrational actors entrenched in their own echo chambers. However, an excellent letter nevertheless.
    Thanx, and sadly, i agree with your assessment. That such an otherwise great article would make no mention at all of the total gun ban and results there of, is cognitive dissonance in journalism at its best.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    15,457
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    I'm really concerned that the lessons of what happened in Venezuela will be lost in translation here.
    The Left is determined that we have these same events here.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hamburg PA
    Posts
    3,506
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Seems like that approach has had more net fails than successes, but the Chinese and Russians are there (article discusses ) and that's a matter of national security for us, so some sort of play may be warranted. Maybe an A Team or 12 and arms to help develop a legit resistance? I think direct action via foreign mil will galvanize them resist, and we don't wanna get into that. I have had a number of Venezuelans tell me they wish the US would intervene as we did in Panama, but that's people outside the country looking in and us showing up assuming we will be seen as liberators didn't work out so great in Iraq and assuming it a bad idea. I tend to think a large % of the mil, population, and power brokers would be happy we were there, but not willing to put US lives on the line to find out. The 2012 gun ban made sure the citizens didn't have anything to resist with per my LTE.
    I wouldn't argue that it would be a good idea.
    But, it ain't a good place currently. I wish I had the answers.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

    "Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent

    "Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,995
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Venezuela is a no win for our country as it currently is. There is no saving it. The Russians and or Chinese will become overlords to the current dictatorship via loans and obligations and supplying "advisors" as the country implodes. Direct intervention by the US would rile the populace as they have been trained for years that the US wants to invade their country. Us supplying arms and aid to a resistance against an overt Russian/Chinese backed dictatorship is working so well in Syria, right? [/sarcasm] We have lost our nerve to do the right thing early enough on to be effective. We wait until it is hopeless and then wring our hands.

    The only way to win would be to do what the Russkies and Chinese are doing but do it bigger: buy the country and the dictatorship and have them manage it as a puppet state. But instead we will more likely follow their example of how to enslave a populace (our own) through economic attrition over decades.
    It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! ... Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry in an address at St. John’s Church, Richmond, Virginia, on March 23, 1775.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •