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Thread: Colt PD trade-in

  1. #31
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    Bush the Elder banned the import of semi auto rifles via executive order in 1989 which lead to thumbhole FAL copies, MAK 90's and a few other abominations.

    Summer 2005, Bush the younger had ATF change the interpretation on parts kits so the often nice FAL, AK, G3, and other kits less receivers started getting their barrels cut up like full auto receivers.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    I believe they would have to have an FFL/SOT to receive them. Once they received them, I believe they can make the barrel longer than 16" and have them struck from the NFA SBR registry. Once that's done, they should be just a regular long gun.
    This an excerpt from the NFA Handbook Sect 2.5:

    Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components.

    Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features.

    If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.

    For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA.

    NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

    This older thread also recommends sending a letter to the ATF notifying them of the change:

    Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?

    There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.


    Read the entire thread, as there was discussion that the specific statement above was removed when the FAQ's were revised in 2016.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...m-NFA-registry
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 03-21-18 at 19:32.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZGXtreme View Post
    Our agency just received 80 Colt 6921’s to be issued out during 2nd Quarter quals to replace the current issue Colt 6520.

    Anyone interested in knowing who buys them up and resells them? If so I’ll try and track that down to share.
    How big is your agency? I'd love to know how to get on the list for some smaller agencies to buy their used firearms when they come up....my local muni where I live has 20 officers for example.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    This an excerpt from the NFA Handbook Sect 2.5:

    Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components.

    Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features.

    If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.

    For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA.

    NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.

    This older thread also recommends sending a letter to the ATF notifying them of the change:

    Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?

    There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.


    Read the entire thread, as there was discussion that the specific statement above was removed when the FAQ's were revised in 2016.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...m-NFA-registry
    Is that not basically what I said?
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  5. #35
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    U.S. Department of Justice
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
    Firearms and Explosives
    Washington, DC 20226
    July 13, 2005
    Open Letter to Federally Licensed Firearms Importers and Registered Importers of U.S. Munitions
    Import List Articles
    The purpose of this open letter is to provide important information to importers concerning the lawful
    importation of certain frames, receivers and barrels.
    Importation of Frames, Receivers or Barrels of Firearms Under Title 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3)
    Section 925(d) provides standards for the importation of firearms and ammunition into the United States.
    In particular, section 925(d)(3) provides that the Attorney General shall authorize a firearm to be imported
    if it meets several conditions: (1) it is not defined as a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA); (2)
    it is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes; and (3) it is
    not a surplus military firearm. However, the subsection further provides that “in any case where the
    Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be
    unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if
    assembled.”
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that the language of 18
    U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-
    importable firearms to be imported into the United States. Accordingly, ATF will no longer approve ATF
    Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be
    prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for
    “repair or replacement” of existing firearms, will be allowed.
    ATF recognizes that importers have, in the past, obtained import permits authorizing the importation of
    barrels and receivers for non-importable firearms for "repair or replacement" and may have entered into
    contracts in reliance upon such authorizations. In order to mitigate the impact of ATF’s change in import
    policy and to allow importers a reasonable period to come into compliance, ATF will forgo enforcement
    of this import restriction for 60 calendar days and allow importers holding existing permits to continue to
    import barrels and receivers for a period of 60 calendar days. ATF believes this time period is adequate
    for importers who have entered into binding contracts for the sale and shipment of such barrels and
    receivers to complete the process of importing the items into the United States. ATF will advise Customs and Border Protection that in no event should these permits be accepted to release these items for entry
    into the United States after September 10, 2005.
    Importers are reminded that ATF previously approved permits for non-importable barrels and receivers
    for repair or replacement only, and this restriction was stamped on the face of the permit. Importers who
    import such components for any purpose other than repair or replacement of existing firearms, e.g., for
    assembly into new firearms, will be exceeding the scope of the import authorization in violation of law. If
    ATF determines, through inspection or otherwise, that an importer willfully violates the import provisions
    of the GCA, the importer’s license is subject to revocation pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923(e).
    Importers holding approved import permits for non-importable barrels and receivers will receive a letter
    prior to September 10, 2005, advising them that their permit has been suspended.
    This determination affects importers as follows:
    1. IF YOU SUBMIT A NEW APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND
    BARRELS ON OR AFTER THE DATE OF THIS LETTER, AND THE PERMIT IS FOR
    NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS, OR NATIONAL
    FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION.
    2. IF YOU HAVE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND
    BARRELS THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN DENIED OR APPROVED BY ATF AND THE
    PERMIT IS FOR NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS OR
    NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION.
    3. IF YOU ALREADY HOLD AN APPROVED PERMIT TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS
    AND BARRELS “FOR REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT,” ATF WILL BE SENDING YOU A
    LETTER EXPLAINING THAT YOUR PERMIT WILL BE SUSPENDED AFTER
    SEPTEMBER 10, 2005, AND PROVIDING YOU WITH INFORMATION REGARDING
    YOUR RIGHT TO SUBMIT ARGUMENTS WHY YOUR PERMIT SHOULD NOT BE
    REVOKED.
    Maintaining open lines of communication is vital to the successful future of ATF’s partnership with the
    import community. The Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch staff is available to answer your
    questions about the issues addressed in this letter. You may reach us by phone at 202-927-8320 or by fax
    at 202-927-2697. Additional information regarding this issue will be provided on our Website at
    www.atf.gov.
    Assistant Director
    Enforcement Programs and Services

  6. #36
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    68 GCA restricts post-1968 imported title-2 items to SOTs, Gov, LE. The Colt Canada SBRs could be removed from the registry after being made title-1, then sold commercially. Title-1 imported “non-sporting” rifles can be sold commercially after satisfying their approved import purpose of LE/Gov use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex V View Post
    Stupid question: can an FFL pin a muzzle device on one of the 14.5's to make it 16+" and no NFA stuff needed?
    Absolutely. Has been done with imported SBR semiauto-only SIG 551s and 552s. FFL/SOT receives the items, turns into title-1 firearm. Can accomplish this in several ways - make the barrel 16”, remove the barrel, or remove the upper. Send a notification letter to ATF stating it is no longer under the purview of the NFA, wait for confirmation letter from ATF. As was posted earlier, the letter is not required but it is good practice. If you wish to re-register as a SBR, ATF will give you a hassle if they were not previously notified that the item was no longer subject to the NFA. I had this happen on my SIG 552 and had to send ATF the confirmation letter they previously sent to the SOT who rendered it a title-1 firearm and sent notification to ATF.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex V View Post
    Ah! Didn't realize they were on paper as SBRs. I assumed since they belonged to an LEO department they didn't need to be registered.
    As far as I know only DoD/military owned title-2 is not in the NFA registry. All other LE and fed gov (and of course civilian) owned title-2 firearms are in the NFA registry.

    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    I do not believe so, as it is the receiver that is registered. I received that info from an ATF agent years ago regarding shotguns.
    Per the excerpt from the NFA handbook in in your post (#33) a SBR, SBS, AOW, or DD is only under the purview of the NFA if the item is in a configuration that makes it a SBR, SBS, AOW, or DD. For SBR this is a rifle with barrel less than 16” or OAL less than 26”. There is no such thing as a registered SBR lower.
    Last edited by JoshNC; 03-21-18 at 21:45.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNC View Post
    68 GCA restricts post-1968 imported title-2 items to SOTs, Gov, LE. The Colt Canada SBRs could be removed from the registry after being made title-1, then sold commercially. Title-1 imported “non-sporting” rifles can be sold commercially after satisfying their approved import purpose of LE/Gov use.




    Absolutely. Has been done with imported SBR semiauto-only SIG 551s and 552s.
    I think the imported SBR deal involves coming in as an imported pistol. Seem to recall that being the case with an MP40 clone a few years back and the Sigs get mentioned as such here:

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...1s-are-inbound

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by adh View Post
    How big is your agency? I'd love to know how to get on the list for some smaller agencies to buy their used firearms when they come up....my local muni where I live has 20 officers for example.
    We’re in the 120’s staffing wise.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    Is that not basically what I said?
    Yes it is, but with gusto!

    My apologies, in my mind I was not responding to you, but the thread at large. I meant no offense.

    The only thing that I gleaned from trying to edumakating myself was that ArmsUnlimited could have made them non-NFA and sold them as GCA firearms without the hassle of shipping them to another FFL/SOT. I think.

  10. #40
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    I don't see how welding a muzzle extension on would change their non-sporting and imported barrel status.

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