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Thread: 178 gr ELDs in .308 Winchester

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    We didn't use a drag model, we used the BULLET DONT LIE model. But we had a very strange day. Big winds that must have pushed bullets everywhere. We had the greatest variations we had ever seen. More than just using MEN brass which has proven consistent in the past.

    We had bullets drop 15 feet short, then 2 dance around or hit target at 1,000 yards. It was a crazy day, some days no conclusions can be made.
    PB
    The 178s are longer than 175 TMKs. You might be better served with a 1-in-10 twist barrel.

  2. #12
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    The LMT MWS might love them. It loves the 168's. I have no magic wand to make my 1/12 to 1/10, or I would. I still have 8,000 rounds to shoot the CL barrel out of FN SPR, so that might be a while. But we'll try.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  3. #13
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    I will say that if you are using a deep throat 700, my experience with the 178 AMAX and BTHP is that these bullets want to be seated close to the lands. As in 2.900 - 2.925 after measuring with Hornady COAL tool. The bottom of my action is notched to feed this OAL and I'm running Alpha magazines. SMKs can be seated at 2.8, no problem jumping those a mile. But there's the difference between tangent and secant ogive from what I've seen.

  4. #14
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    Pappabear ordered another LE Wilson seating die for these bullets. We shot some Sunday that were beyond AI mag length. I think we say a few examples of them out assing the 175 smk at 1000 and 1300, but we had so mamy equipment issues, it was painful... gas blocks coming loose, scopes acting up... It was a goat rope tournament.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  5. #15
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    These shot much better out of Pappabears LMT MWS. He shot a good group... all touching, with horizontal stringing. Single digit SDs on two powder lots.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  6. #16
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    We had an old lot and new lot of powder. 4064 I think. The old shot 100 I say one hundred feet per second faster. naturally we are out of the hot powder. We hope to end up around 2,500+ FPS if we can keep primers in.
    Last edited by Pappabear; 05-08-18 at 17:06.
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  7. #17
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    Shot a ladder test today with my 16" Q the Fix rifle. Bartlein Barrel. With the 178gr ELD-X being .18 inches longer then the SMK 175 gr, I was assuming that I needed to start lower in charge then what the 175 smk's take. Well... good thing I did. I was seeing pressure signs at 42.2gr or Varget. With 175gr SMK I usually start my ladder at 41.6 and work up. After 4 shots in I had flat primers and super hard bolt. So I worked back to 40.2 grains and shot it from there.

    Federal Once Fired FGMM brass. CCI Large Rifle Primers. Trimmed case to 2.005. 2.800 COAL. Varget Powder. KAC QDC suppressor. Results:

    40.2 2367
    40.4 2368
    40.6 2375
    40.8 2373
    41.0 2359 (and another to verify (2358)
    41.2 2378
    41.4 2397
    41.6 2412
    41.8 2423 (another to verify 2412)
    42.0 2426 (another to verify 2421)
    42.2 2446 OVER PRESSURE SIGNS

    Factory 175gr FGMM out of this gun was at 2510 +/-

    The first 4 rounds in the ladder test had an SD of 3.8 and ES of 8. Could have just stopped there. The 5th round was lower at 2359 followed by the 6th round right where the first 4 were at. I shot 41.0 gr again to verify and I was at 2358 (only 1 fps off the first 41 gr round) So I knew this was a good number. I also shot the 41.8 and 42.0 again as the first go around only showed a 3 fps difference. Even though I want the extra velocity, I think I am going to load up some rounds in the 40.6-7 range. I dont want to load anything up close to over pressure signs that may come back and bite me on a hot day. Saving some wear/tear, powder, and living with the lower FPS, I think will be better for this gun in the long run. If I want to move heavy pills 3k fps, Im picking up one of my 300 win mags or 300 wsm.

    What are others thoughts on these results above?
    Last edited by Jwknutson17; 05-28-18 at 22:56.
    Philippians 4:13

  8. #18
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    It seems little bit slow. My 16 LMT MWS runs the 168 Noslers in Men brass at 2517 fps, and the 178 ELD's at 2465 in a gas gun. But brass can have huge impact. We have to load these short to fit in a KAC magazine.

    I will say with 100% confidence , pick up a 300WM, life is good there. It is such a big step up in performance with these new ELD bullets. We saw a greater performance jump in the ELD's with 300 vs our 308's.

    We ran the 300's with ELD 220's at 2871 with 74.5 H1K with RWS brass which is beefy, so the load was a little more spicy. The 225 with Norma ran slower at 2762 fps, neither suck for those big bullets.

    Good luck brother.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    It seems little bit slow. My 16 LMT MWS runs the 168 Noslers in Men brass at 2517 fps, and the 178 ELD's at 2465 in a gas gun. But brass can have huge impact. We have to load these short to fit in a KAC magazine.

    I will say with 100% confidence , pick up a 300WM, life is good there. It is such a big step up in performance with these new ELD bullets. We saw a greater performance jump in the ELD's with 300 vs our 308's.

    We ran the 300's with ELD 220's at 2871 with 74.5 H1K with RWS brass which is beefy, so the load was a little more spicy. The 225 with Norma ran slower at 2762 fps, neither suck for those big bullets.

    Good luck brother.

    PB
    Yes 300 win is my favorite. I do have a few. They are thumpers. I get the 200 gr pills moving 3020 fps or so. The ELDx is a touch faster then the accubond.

    In the Hornady book I'm right at velocities published for the ELDX and thought it was just slow, as they use a 22 inch barrel as a baseline I believe, and I'm right at it with a 16 inch barrel. But according to the grains they publish, I'm right there. My APC shoots em faster then my father's 20 inch Rem 700, and also faster then this barrel. I see right at 2600 +/- with Federal Gold Metal Match also in my 16 inch APC. With the QDC suppressor. Not sure why the SR25 slings them so fast. Here is the load data for the 178gr ELDx in the attachment. I think what's hurting me is the OAL max at 2.800 in the Pmag.. it's taking up that case capacity with that longer bullet. It starts crunching powder in the 41 and change powder weights.

    Not sure if this pic shows up below but Varget with 178gr ELDx the max is 42.4 gr at 2450 fps. This seems slow to me as a max with these pills. And what I believe is a 22 inch barrel baseline??

    Screenshot_20180528-195450.jpg
    Last edited by Jwknutson17; 05-28-18 at 23:00.
    Philippians 4:13

  10. #20
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    Man oh man, that short gas gun outrunning long bolt guns can make you scratch your head. Our last lot of Varget is slower than our new lot, which just sucked. We are going to have to bump our new 308 Varget load up. I know all load data published is conservative because such variations in lot to lot powder.

    Sorry mis understood your 300 WM mention.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

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