First time AR buyer: Requesting sanity check

[AKDoug]

The only thing ever keeping me from buying a Colt is the Colt company. Their level of customer service seems to be non-existent unless you know somebody that can make a call and get it fixed for you.

Personally, If I was in the market for a new rifle I'd be buying a Sionics.

[ccosby]

I'll differ from the pack and say pick out a BCM with the features you want. I actually think they're a better rifle and a better value right now. Mid gas, pencil or taper barrel, full length M-Lok handguard. It's all the shit you're going to do anyway, just get it all in the first place in a factory rifle. YMMV.

People have this romantic notion of getting a 6920, a case of ammo, and thats it. How many stick to that? Get what you want up front and skip the starter rifle.

I you WANT a 6920 get that, nothing wrong with that gun. If you want more features you’ll either be unhappy with the 6920 or you’ll spend a bunch of money upgrading it. If you really want KAC SR-15 and you can afford it get that. If you can afford a well appointed BCM and it has the features you want get one of those. If younreally shoot and train with a rifle that you’ll keep a long time the initial purchase price isn’t that important.

The colt is a good choice(I think I'd go with the colt combat unit one with a middy gas over the 6920) but I agree that personally I'd go BCM. The smith and wesson m&p15 moe with the 5r barrel is another gun I'd look at.

G&R had just listed bcm 16 inch middy uppers with fsb and the bcm mlok rail. That along with a bcm lower, rear sight of choice, and say a mro or aimpoint pro is a hell of a setup.

[26 Inf]

I'm looking at snippets from your post to try to get a feel for where you are at:

I've shot ARs many times however it's always been friend/family

Always pushed my own purchase off until I had a gun safe which means getting a house - I'm about a year away from that,,,but,,,,,wanting to get an AR-15 before the next Congress can F up our rights. I'm fully expecting that long term, at a minimum, AR-15 will be banned and at best, current owners will be grandfathered in.

So you are concerned that the AR's will go away and want to get one or two before they do. Why? Not being snarky, but why do you want an AR? Several reasons come to mind, each one indicating a differently equipped rifle:

If you think AR's are fun and merely want to have one for recreational shooting now and again, it doesn't make sense, to me at least, to spend over 2,000 dollars for a plinker.

If you want an AR because you feel one may be necessary to defend your friends and family, I'd pick a better quality rifle, better quality optics, and different support accessories than I would for a plinker. You want a work horse, something that is more likely to hold up over the long term and be compact and light enough to carry and maneuver with.

If you think you'd like to get involved in the shooting sports, the rifle will vary dependent on the discipline your choose.

And obviously, if you think you'd like to hunt the rifle will vary based on type of game, etc.

There is some crossover, but no one rifle will fill all the needs perfectly. I think you need to ponder some, read old threads on this site, use your google-fu before jumping in too deep.

Trying to put my self in your shoes, I think I would get one of these four rifles:

Slick Top - must add sights/optic

Sionics Patrol Rifle Three-E: http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/stor...ol-ssk-12.html (this has a mid-length gas system, a free float rail, MAGPUL MOE SL Furniture, NO ambi-safety - pretty good bargain for 1080.00 - I would choose this over the Colt CCU because of the 'small shop' attention to detail that Sionics offers over Colt, you can buy an ambi safety with the 60.00 savings)

Colt Combat Unit Carbine LE6960-CCU: https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperst...rion-arms-rail (this has a mid-length gas system, a free float rail, MAGPUL MOE SL Furniture, ambi safety - pretty good bargain for 1149.00)

Both of these rifles, with optics and additional support accessories - sling, light, etc. - would make good all around range and HD rifles.

M4 Style FSP

Colt LE 6920: https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-L...e-p/le6920.htm Carbine-length gas system (a negative in my view) reversible non-ambi safety, standard A2 stock and grip (another negative in my view), Magpul MBUS rear sight, as others mentioned this is a good solid package at a reasonable price - 895.00

PSA 16" Stainless Mid-length 1/7 Freedom Carbine - 46637: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-1...m-carbine.html Going to go out on a limb here - PSA is not a brand loved here - I have one of these uppers and it is a sweet shooter, mid-length gas system and cheaper than the Colt 6920 when it is in stock.

If it was me, in today's climate I would buy the Sionics, slap on a Aimpoint PRO, and be shooting for 1500.00 ish.

Then I'd buy a couple of these: SIONICS Gutless Lower Receiver Assembly http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/stor...ifle-zero.html For 150.00 these are the best lower bargain going IMO. Later, if things go bad, you'll be grandfathered and will be able to buy parts to complete them.

JMO

[Stickman]

I'm wanting to get an AR-15 before the next Congress can F up our rights so they can satisfy the emo voters.

I'd rather keep the price in the $1500 range, but could go more if that was really required. I'm fully expecting that long term, at a minimum, AR-15 will be banned and at best, current owners will be grandfathered in.

I've been thinking about building......

1. I agree, and I think you are coming to the party a bit on the late side.

2. I agree again, but before a ban will come grandfathering and registration. Registration is the first step of confiscation.

2.1 Are you looking at a weapon in that range, or a complete weapon with optic, light, sling, ammo, mags etc...? I see you are already buying mags and ammo, and that is a good move.

3. Building and assembling are two different things. In the big picture, you are going to do pretty good buying a Colt 6920 as a basic weapon. If you are wanting to get a weapon already set up with a rail, the BCM product line is hard to beat for high level quality. If you want to assemble it yourself, it can be as simple as pushing two pins (to assemble the upper and lower), versus building which typically involves selection and complete assembly of everything.

Lastly, you can go really cheap on parts. There are a lot of people in the last 3 or 4 years who have shown up on forums touting the cheapest, lowest level, bottom of the barrel QC available all to find the lowest price. All parts are not the same. Do NOT get sucked into the "milspec' label that companies like to slap on everything. The use of "milspec" can often mean something as simplistic as the proper forging was used, or that the milspec anodizing was allegedly used. Meanwhile, the QC steps involved can all be failed, which are the important things.

[MistWolf]

I don't get people suggesting to first time AR buyers to skip getting a basic carbine like a Colt 6920 and either build or buy "exactly what they want". How can a first time buyer know exactly what they want until they go shoot an AR?

Another point- Chances are, any AR you buy is unlikely to become valuable as a collectible. But most of those that do are made by Colt. One good example is a Colt with the M4A1 roll mark. They originally sold for for about the same price as any other Colt M4 AR, but now command a $500 to $1000 premium. Think about that before dismissing the Colt.

[sidewaysil80]

The only thing ever keeping me from buying a Colt is the Colt company. Their level of customer service seems to be non-existent unless you know somebody that can make a call and get it fixed for you.

Personally, If I was in the market for a new rifle I'd be buying a Sionics.

Same with BCM, if you send something back for warranty or are not happy with a product they blacklist you from future purchases. I just hit the three month mark of waiting for a brand new Colt to return from warranty work (canted barrel). So from a customer service perspective I’ll never buy a Colt or BCM again and pass on my experiences when asked about either brand.

Sionics on the other hand is affiliated with Iraqgunz and he is a frequent member here and wealth of knowledge and sme as far as I’m concerned. So clearly they know what they are doing. They will be my next rifle for sure.

[26 Inf]

I don't get people suggesting to first time AR buyers to skip getting a basic carbine like a Colt 6920 and either build or buy "exactly what they want". How can a first time buyer know exactly what they want until they go shoot an AR?

I hear what you are saying regarding not going crazy, but how many folks that actually shoot their rifles more than 100 rounds a year actually leave a 6920 as purchased? Or stick with irons?

With that in mind I think it just makes sense to go with a mid-length gas system and a profile more conducive to optics use than having sight tower permanently visible in your optic.

And it also depends on whether you are talking the straight 6920, or something like the 6920-R Trooper.

I have a bunch or AR's in the safes, including 3 with A2 front sights, if I had to go down to one AR it wouldn't have an A2 tower on it, and it wouldn't have the carbine gas system.

[Coal Dragger]

I don't get people suggesting to first time AR buyers to skip getting a basic carbine like a Colt 6920 and either build or buy "exactly what they want". How can a first time buyer know exactly what they want until they go shoot an AR?

Another point- Chances are, any AR you buy is unlikely to become valuable as a collectible. But most of those that do are made by Colt. One good example is a Colt with the M4A1 roll mark. They originally sold for for about the same price as any other Colt M4 your AR, but now command a $500 to $1000 premium. Think about that before dismissing the Colt.

Colts will hold value, and have the strongest possibility of increasing in value as a collector.

My one Colt is an M4A1 roll mark, and was a limited run with the DD RIS II rail and M4A1 profile barrel. Bought when it was just another Colt with some factory upgrades.

I look periodically and haven’t seen another factory SOCOM II for sale online in a long time. Pretty confident that this rifle has gone up in value.

[MistWolf]

I hear what you are saying regarding not going crazy, but how many folks that actually shoot their rifles more than 100 rounds a year actually leave a 6920 as purchased? Or stick with irons?

With that in mind I think it just makes sense to go with a mid-length gas system and a profile more conducive to optics use than having sight tower permanently visible in your optic.

And it also depends on whether you are talking the straight 6920, or something like the 6920-R Trooper.

I have a bunch or AR's in the safes, including 3 with A2 front sights, if I had to go down to one AR it wouldn't have an A2 tower on it, and it wouldn't have the carbine gas system.

Keep in mind I'm talking about a first time purchaser who has little to no experience with an AR and has no idea what the perfect configuration is going to be.

When AR noobies ask me about ARs, I strongly suggest starting with a basic carbine configuration, something like the 6920. That way they can get started shooting as economical as possible and make upgrades without replacing expensive parts. I push the Colt 6920 because it's reliable and the noob can get to shooting without having to troubleshoot things like a weak extractor spring. It's also a good visual example of what I mean by "basic AR carbine". I can show a noob what I mean without having to describe features they may have no clue as to what I'm talking about.

I wouldn't discourage noobies from getting something like a Colt Trooper or a CCU (or a similar AR from another maker). But I would discourage newbies from getting bull barrels, PRS stocks, expensive triggers, palm swell grips, offset sights, lasers and the like until they've shot enough to know whether or not they such things are wanted.

I wouldn't discourage a noob from starting off with a red dot sight or optic. I would encourage them to also learn how to use iron sights, but I wouldn't force the issue.

I also realize that everyone's journey as a shooter has to be their own. Some of the most important lessons I've learned came from testing ideas and theories I've had that, once put to the test, didn't turn out the way I thought they would. So, while I offer guidance when asked, I also encourage shooters to test their ideas and see what happens

For example, I have a friend who is retired from the Air Force and has twenty years in the civil service who recently got into the shooting game. He bought a Colt 6920 on my advice. Since its purchase, he's made a few modifications. He had a gunsmith install a low profile gas block and Odin Works keymod free float key mod handguard and has gone through a couple of really cheap optics. Embarrassingly cheap. A few months ago, he bought (if I recall) PRS buttstock and came over so it could be installed. It didn't fit, so he took it back. This weekend, he came over to have a Luth pistol grip and Luth adjustable buttstock installed. The buttstock was made to fit "both commercial and milspec REs" and rattled horribly even after the anti-rattle screw was tightened down. His current sight is an off brand red dot sight that usually retails in the $150 range, but at least is light years ahead of what he had before. At this time, he does not plan to use a magnified optic. Yes, he has an adjustable buttstock and an RDS and no, he hasn't even shot it yet. I'm certain his journey is going to be interesting and a source of amusement.

[Coal Dragger]

I disagree with only one point Mistwolf.

I would always encourage a new AR shooter to upgrade the trigger if possible. There is no reason aside from budget concerns to have to be subjected to the awfulness that is a GI trigger in an AR.