Remington vs Mossberg Box-fed Shotguns

[PrarieDog]

Good discussion on the remington and mossberg pump guns. I would really like to see when either of these companies will go with a box magazine on their semi auto models.

[Chickenhawks]

Yes, indeed, too few people realize how to properly mount the shotgun, the angle in as the stock goes toward the toe on the top stock seemed to me that it would intuitively help the shooter keep the head erect and get it mounted high enough that the bead was floating on what I call the rear sight plane of the receiver.

Looking at you pictues, I'd be willing to bet if you measured the recoil pads from toe to heel, you would find the middle stock's recoil pad 1/2 inch shorter.

We are on EXACTLY the same page, and I emphasize precisely what you say. I sometimes even use a laser boresighter to illustrate how to keep their head erect and properly get the shotgun up to their cheek and tucked into their shoulder. The amount of recoil pad that contacts their shoulder doesn't matter as much - hence, the importance of good recoil pads. The criteria will always be a proper sight picture.

In certain applications, a shotgun isn't aimed so precisely but in defensive situations, the shotgun MUST be aimed properly (and the skills MUST become subconscious reactions.) This is why I have never agreed with people who say that you "don't need to aim a shotgun; you just point it in the general direction of the threat and they all fall down or give up and run away."

To me, that's BS. Anything beyond the length of the barrel must be aimed. The difference between a rifle and a shotgun is that the shotgun is aimed quickly and instinctively. The eyeball becomes your rear sight. (Hence, the importance of consistent shouldering.) This is why, in my applications, a rifle is a very poor tool to make a fast snaphot on a 40 MPH charging target at 7 metres away and closing.

I know I am preaching to the converted here. The interesting thing is that you noticed one other difference between the two 870 Marine Magnum shotguns. The middle shotgun has an aftermarket recoil pad, while the top one has the stock Hogue pad. Much as I like the Hogue recoil pads - and they are very good - I wanted just a little bit more absorption for new shooters. Hence, the middle shotgun has a Limbsaver pad on it.

Unlike old school traditional shotgun trainers, I don't beat up the newbies and laugh at them and tell them, "Shotguns are a man's gun" or any such bullshit. I need to get people so comfortable that they forget the recoil (that won't be noticeable in a real life encounter anyway) and concentrate on imprinting the basic technical skills so they become unconscious reactions.

I may be getting on in years but I base my training on MODERN science, and on what works in the real world with the average shooter, not the Chris Costa operator wannabe's. Many of my students have never fired a shotgun in their lives, and beyond coming to see me every two years, probably never will. (Which is a good thing.)

The part that keeps me doing this every year when i should instead be thinking about drinks on beaches and retirement is the fact that it WORKS. Every time I see a new shooter nervously fire their first shotgun rounds, and then a few hours later be accurately shooting multiple reactive targets, speedloading a shotgun without thinking and never feel or think about recoil at all, it warms my heart. The fun part is when i ask them which of the rounds they have just fired in a dynamic scenario was a slug ... and they have no clue.

The shotgun is the tool; the mind is the weapon.

[HKGuns]

While I do own a Winchester 20 gauge pump. I have one rule regarding shotguns. Benelli or Beretta only for serious shotguns.

[26 Inf]

Chickenhawks: just one word - 'yep.'

[Chickenhawks]

Chickenhawks: just one word - 'yep.'

LOL. Knew we would get along.

Just to add to the discussion, I set up some targets while at the farm for Christmas and fired a bunch of 00 buckshot from a pair of 870s. (I was working on an article about the myth of over-choking buckshot, but I will save that for a future discussion.)

One of the comments early on in this thread was how the balance of a tube-fed shotgun changes as you fire it, while the balance of the box-fed shotgun stays the same. I wanted to see this effect by shooting both shotguns back-to-back, and seconds apart.

Wow, was I surprised. The two shotguns were virtually identical in recoil pad, stock configuration and length. Overall weight loaded or unloaded was within ounces of each other. But the difference in the feel while shooting was subtle but very noticeable.

I will admit I was one of the biggest sceptics when box-fed shotguns first hit the market many years ago. But I kept an open mind, and when Mossberg and Big Green came out with their new models, I began to see the advantages. The more I shot them, the more I liked them.

I may be old but there are not many who can keep up with my speed even at my advanced age. I actually shocked myself today at how the speed of the box-fed shotgun was so smooth and consistent shot-to-shot, and how much the tube-fed shotgun jumped in comparison as I emptied the tube. The balance of the tube-fed shotgun really DOES change as you fire it.

It almost seems as if the weight of the shells in the tube helps keep the muzzle down for the first few shots, but once that center of gravity begins to shift backwards, the muzzle rise starts changing with every shot. With the 870 DM, the muzzle rise was exactly the same from the first to the last shot. As I said, subtle but noticeable when fired back-to-back.

I am liking this 870 DM more and more every day.

Each to their own of course but to those people who once said a box magazine shotgun is just a hammer looking for a nail, I reply that it may be but the advantage of a shotgun is that when it pounds a nail, the nail stays pounded.

[Moose-Knuckle]

LOL! Of course I do. That's the beauty of internet forums. Everyone can offer their opinion.

Besides, have you SEEN the Mossberg 590M? It IS ugly! It looks like someone glued a model of the Empire State Building to the bottom of a shotgun.

Life is too short to own ugly guns, and at my advanced age in life, life is too short, period.

On the other hand, another one of my mentors was an old Chief Warrant Officer who used to have a saying that went, "Beware the old man in a young person's war." I guess that's me. Old, crusty and willing to argue anything until all you kids get off my lawn.

Oh, I understand now . . . enter the 30 something Boomer.

Your beloved 870's are only missing some muh Punisher skulls to complete the look.

And yes I've not only "SEEN" the Mossberg 590M but fondled the entire lineup at the NRA show, but at alas my penis can only become so erect.

[jaholder]

Not interested in a box feed, but I'm getting older and more set in my ways.

If I can't get it done with my 870 PCM with a full extended tube, 2 in the Speedfeed stock and another 5 in the sidesaddle it's' not getting done with a box magazine neither.

[Chickenhawks]

True enough. But I am older than you, and I just got tired of retracing my steps back to the start line by the trail of live shells accidentally dropped on the ground from sidesaddle shellholders and Speedfeed stocks. I am too old to bend down that often.

Yes, box-mag shotguns are not for everyone, but I love the simple elegance of a mag in the shotgun and a mag in the back pocket of my jeans. I don't think the aftermarket accessory industry needs to panic yet, as the box-fed shotgun is not for everyone, but for me, it just does not get any simpler than that.