PSA Lowers for $39.99

[Hammer_Man]

I've had fitment issues with Anderson lowers before, so I tend to stay away from the bargain brands, but at 40 bucks a piece it's REALLY tempting to buy a few...

[ccosby]

Spending the extra $40-60 to make sure everything is correct on a serialized part that literally will never wear out sounds like a good a deal to me. Its like those people who refuse to buy the $12 insurance that covers you for $250k in damages on a rental car.

I'm in this boat. I've seen way too many issues with low end gear and I value my time more. A good example that just happened not that long ago was a friend who had two cheap lowers that were branded by a semi local sot. Went to build an AR pistol off one of them with a short 22 upper while he waited for the form 1 to come back to sbr it. The good news is that he got with me to assemble it first. The bolt catch machining is off and it jams with the 22 upper. Seems to work ok with a normal 5.56 upper though. Checked the upper, bolt etc on other sbr's of mine and a colt m16a2 and they worked right on them. Ended up selling him a spare smith and wesson lower receiver I got cheap when a gun store closed down and everything worked fine. He form 1'd it. I've also had to fix a few friends anderson lowers where those idiots couldn't be bothered to thread the screw hole for the pistol grip all of the way. It takes no time to fix other than one of them trying to put it together, realizing it will not work right, and then having to drive to me to borrow a tap.

That being said even with standard forged lowers a lower is not a lower. You have things like the angle of the magwell flaring cuts that can make mag changes easier. Now I do agree that if the lower is in spec it really doesn't matter who made it from a function standpoint. I'd rather start with someone who seems to care more about the QC. You can find plenty for around 100 bucks that seem to have less issues around them if you want.

In PSA's case I've had too many issues with crappy lower parts kits that friends have used from them where I end up swapping something like a take down spring or detent to make taking apart the gun easier because the PSA part was crap. Something you honestly wouldn't think would be a problem. I've watched friends fight to get barrel nuts off that were torqued way over spec and had no grease used. I've also seen a few of their uppers with fsb's really canted from people with them. I haven't seen their ak's but have read about the issues with them. I personally wouldn't buy one of their lowers. Not saying they can't make a quality product, just saying the chances of having problems are higher.

[jpmuscle]

I love when members shit on SMEs

There was a particularly embarrassing moment the last time this happened, and this time is equally as bad.

COME AT ME BRO
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wct097]

IME most people who buy 4 PSA lowers play barbie AR-dress up more than they ever shoot.

Because shooting can be expensive and you can't post photos of it (usually).

I guess that's directed at me? How much do I have to shoot to be able to post my opinion on m4c? I'm guessing much more than is needed to post on arf, gt, or others? I'd like to be able to gauge so I can self evaluate for future posts.

Seriously though, I am very interested in hearing from people that don't share my opinion that a "lower is a lower" as to why they so vehemently disagree. I'm not sure I care about the fact someone had an issue with a given brand, I think it's statistically meaningless to quantify the number of issues posted about on a forum without much more data. I am honestly interested in hearing about the actual issues people have had.

For example, someone posted that they bought 4 Spikes lowers and had two with tight mag wells. That's an example of an actual issue. I can't extrapolate from that, a statistic that 50% of Spikes lowers are out of spec. I don't know what the number is, but I would suspect it's in the single digit range. Maybe 4-5%. Pure speculation though. Maybe KAC is 1-2% because of better QC, BCM is 3-4%, and PSA is 6-8%. I don't think you can accurately gauge that as a 3rd party or as the individual with the problem because you can't get a real view of the actual data. What you can do, however, is gauge the impact that the problems cause you. For me, that particular issue is a minor one. I'd expect to find that problem early on and send the two back for repair or replacement. It's an annoyance, but it's not going to be a dire problem for me. Lets say those Spikes lowers cost $100 each. I don't see the value for me in spending 75-125% more to reduce the probability of me having a spec issue by 1-2%. Granted, I'm making up numbers here, but my goal is to illustrate my reasoning, not to argue the numbers.

The specter of spec issues like the above example (with a stripped lower) doesn't bother me, especially when considered in the context of occasional QC issues and nebulous statistics. What would concern me is if people were making the argument that PSA lowers, due to QC/spec issues, were sometimes cracking, failing, or somehow breaking under use randomly after having been previously working flawlessly, that would get my attention. The point being that the whole min/max concept doesn't float for my purposes. Shaving off a couple percent chance that I have to send a part back doesn't equate in value to twice the purchase price or more. I'm a hobby & competition shooter. If an armorer was building a large number of guns for people going into harms way, that extra 1%,2%,5%, or 10% minimization in spec issues could be worth the cost to ensure they get done and out the door without me having to wait for replacements or deal with the vendor. To that armorer, a "lower is not a lower". To me, a "lower is a lower". Neither of us is wrong, nor is it worth throwing around insults to prove the point.

[phixion]

I'm paraphrasing a member of another forum who recently spent four days at PSA: since 2008, the company went from selling PMAGS and PMC Bronze .223 out of a garage to becoming the largest AR manufacturer in the US (50+% market share), all while using all American made parts.

If that is true, it sure puts a lot of things into perspective.

[Grendelsnap]

Only shooters and AR dorks care who makes their lowers, or their rifles for that matter. 3/4 of the guys at work who own ARs have bottom dollar shit and wouldn't care to know there is a difference between what my BCM is made out of and what what their $399 Phil's Gun Shack parts gun is made out of.

[26 Inf]

I'm paraphrasing a member of another forum who recently spent four days at PSA: since 2008, the company went from selling PMAGS and PMC Bronze .223 out of a garage to becoming the largest AR manufacturer in the US (50+% market share), all while using all American made parts.

If that is true, it sure puts a lot of things into perspective.

I'm not bashing PSA - 50% market share can mean a lot of different things - I believe we are primarily talking about complete AR's and lower receivers, not miscellaneous parts.

The 2016 ATF manufacturers report doesn't paint that picture -

PSA manufactured more complete rifles, (10,707) than some of the boutique brands, but less than Colt, Daniel Defense, Del-Ton, Rock River, to name a few.

In terms of lowers, if I'm interpreting correctly, PSA apparently made/had made 111,543; Aero came in at 81,516; Anderson Arms at 453,763.

https://www.atf.gov/about/docs/undef...08pdf/download

No doubt though, PSA is a major player.

ETA: Final thought, I didn't mistype WC Anderson (dba Anderson Arms) that is 453,763 items that they put serial numbers on. Apparently the poverty pony folks make lowers for a lot of other folks.

[officerX]

I personally have had an issue with a PSA lower takedown pin hole being out of spec. It was too low and would not go together properly with any upper I had.

[RHINOWSO]

I guess that's directed at me?

Actually, to clear up my comment, it wasn't directed at anyone in this thread - but if it rings true to someone, that isn't something I can help you with.

It's just what I see locally (and to some degree online) - guys who have 5 to 50 ARs built and lowers stacked in the safe - and when there is a sale, they gotta have another 1 or 10 from wherever the latest deal is.

They are builders / collectors and occasional shooters - they plink 30 rounds through a new gun from the bench or from some position with really zero thought to anything other than pulling the trigger, then hemm and hawww over what works or doesn't, then you are lucky to see them shoot it again, ever.

And for the record, that is OK. Not everyone is or tries to be a shooter - it's easier for lots of people to justify buying things, but a lot harder to buy something that you are going to expend (ie, ammo). And considering the company on M4C, I'm likely an average (at best) shooter, simply due to time and financial constraints - I'm not in the industry. But I have taken some training classes and stick to a basic training regimen of drills which I shoot 1-3 times a month (pistol and rifle). So when I see $39.99 lowers, which will cost me about $65-75 after shipping and transfer, I prefer to just go shoot a set of my drills (100rds pistol, 160rds rifle) with the stuff I already have or maybe save up for something I really want (like a NF NX-8 in my case).

YMMV - I didn't mean to get everyone's hackles up.

[JusticeM4]

$40 stripped lowers are a steal no matter how you put it.

PSA lowers are about the same quality as Aero, Anderson, Spikes, and a few others. I've built dozen's of them (just as many of us have here) with zero issues. Its not the quality of a Mega or Noveske (nor are they meant to be), but for that cheap price who's complaining?

Hearsay is one thing, first hand experience is another. In my experience most of these lower-end receivers work just fine. I've built over 20 lowers and complete rifles (using PSA, Aero, Spikes, Anderson receivers) with 100% function rate. Maybe I'm just lucky?