First build advice

[JRDavis89]

Hello all,

I am pretty new to the forum, not many posts, just alot of reading.

I have just finished my lower and need advice on the rest of the build. I am in college and this build is a project that I plan on finishing by the time I graduate. (Who knows when that will be? ) Money and value are the biggest issues, but I hate skimping and can save up money for the more important pieces. I am wanting this build to be my go to gun, especially for home defense. Not wanting to mess with NFA stuff until I finish it. I want it too last the rest of my life( as long as I take care of it.) Any advice or comments are appreciated and thanks in advance.

YHM Stripped Lower (Good?, Bad? mine seems fine with great machining.)
DPMS Lower Parts Kit (I know many people are not fans, but the machining on mine seemed pretty good and I like the idea of non stamped pieces.)
Jard Adjustable 3lb Single Stage Trigger (not many people talk about this trigger is it not great? My gunsmith thought it was made excpetionally, and I like the feel of it as well. Like or Dislike?)
Magpul Miad
Magpul Aluminum Trigger Guard
Magpul Commercial CTR

That is my lower, now for the undecided upper.

Vltor MUR Upper Reciever (Seems to be built extremly well, love the look, pretty set on this)
BCM, Fail Zero, DPMS Nitrate Coated-BCG (I would love any feedback on what I should go with.)
YHM Fluted Barrel, Noveske (M249 lined) barrel, (or should I just get a Pac-Nor?), BCM BFH, Daniel Defense CHF. ( I am really undecided here, I want a 16 in, probably carbine gas system, and thats all I have got. Again, any advice?)
DD 12in Lite Rail, KAC URX II (rifle length) or Troy/Vtac Extreme Battle Rail (Which one? all sound good, I am looking for a very lightweight solution and bang for my buck)
PRI Adjustable Gas Block or Vltor Low Pro Gas Block(Any thoughts, might go the suppressed route)
Magpul MBUS Front and Back (Gen II, should be out by the time I need them)
Magpul AFG
Aimpoint T-1 in Larue QD Mount(Seems like this is extremly popular, and from the looks of it should be.)
Advanced Armament Brakeout (Really like the idea of this, and the price.)

I dont know if this matters, but I really like Magpul, BCM, Daniel Defense, Larue, KAC, Aimpoint, VLTOR, and Advanced Armament, and would like to go with them if possible.

Thanks again and if I left anything out please correct me. I cant wait to get started on the upper!

[SkiDevil]

Welcome to M4C.

Although, I am sure some of the more experienced members will respond soon enough, I will offer my opinion/ amateur views on the matter.

First-off, I would strongly recommend that you visit one of our senior members (Robs) website at: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/59827.html

Rob has put together several articles with a great deal of information which would be useful for you in your selection of components.

I will preface my views with the following; I only have owned three AR type rifles and prior to that my primary exposure to the platform was the basic Semi-Auto Colt AR.

One thing that I have learned over the last several years is that you will benefit a great deal from starting with a basic type rifle AND shooting it in order to determine what your needs truly are and what gear is required to fill those needs.

That said, the brands that you mentioned in your post are good choices, since you already purchased a lower it would seem that either assembling an upper (paying a professional may be a better idea due to the technical aspects and the tools required) or purchasing one already assembled.

For a basic rifle you couldn't go wrong with a Daniel Defense or one of the BCMs (see Robs articles).

-I have examined several YHM lower receivers and they appeared to be of good quality.

-I would stay with a standard trigger to begin with and then consider a 2-stage or match trigger later-on.

-MagPul is good Kit. I have mostly MagPul accessories on my rifles and their PMAGS are very reliable and well made

-The Voltr and even La Rue receivers are fantastic, but depending upon the use of the rifle a standard M4 type receiver would also suffice. One of the precision machined receivers would be better suited to a match, SPR, or target rifle.

-The Barrel is truly the heart of any rifle. A quality barrel really makes a difference, but again until you know exactly what you intend on doing with the gun that criteria will dictate the type of barrel you may decide to use.
FWIW, I own Noveske (stainless) barrels and the quality is extremely high and the rifles are capable of a high degree of accuracy.

-On suppressors or SBRs I couldn't comment as I have no experience with these items.

-Optics/ sights, again the use of the rifle will determine what type of optic is appropriate. A RDS (Red Dot Sight) is definitely fast and would be conducive to a general purpose/ all-around rifle. Robs discusses this well in his articles.

As for the durability, unless you will be firing thousands upon thousands of rounds per year most of the reputable type brands like (in no particular order) BCM, Daniel Defense, Colt, Noveske, Knights (KAC), LMT, etc. will last you a very long time.

Good Luck. And as others have said, be careful the Black Rifle Disease can get very expensive.

SkiDevil

P.S. I would check-out G and R to order one of his LPKs and keep the DPMS for a spare: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...&keywords=kits

[Belmont31R]

Lower doesn't matter as long as its machined within spec. As long as yours is there wont be a problem.


DPMS LPK's are decent I guess. I'd probably replace the FCG with Colt parts from Brownells but thats just me. Pins, detents, and springs are pretty hard to mess up so you should be ok there.


I'd stay away from that type of trigger for my only gun, and GTG at that. A lightly polished USGI Colt FCG would be much better suited to your needs right now.


Magpul makes good stuff so no issues there.


The MUR is nice but doesn't really do anything a standard forged upper doesn't already. Money is better spent elsewhere. BCM makes a nice forged upper for around $100.


BCM makes a very good BCG, and there is nothing wrong with a standard USGI M16 BCG. The special coatings like Fail Zero do are good if you plan on shooting a couple thousand rounds without lube I guess. For a standard AR its wasted money IMO.


I own quite a few carbine and mid length guns. I would go with a mid length over a carbine. They are easier to shoot...less recoil, are less harsh on parts, and generally are smoother.




I think you would do well just to purchase a DD or BCM upper. You'll save money, and still have the same quality rifle you would otherwise. Im on my 3rd BCM upper now, and you cannot go wrong with them. I also have several of their BCG's, and they are as good of product as you can get.



Regarding the AFG I tried it, and didn't work as well for me as a LaRue FUG. The AFG is too shallow of an angle for me, and torques my wrist after a little while. Its really personal preference, and there are a lot of options out there. I have a plastic bin full of parts Ive tried, and not liked over something else. Ive been at this for a few years now, and Im just now getting to where I can standarize parts across the board. If something looks promising Ill pick one up, and do some shooting with it. Try a variety of ways, and see what works best for you.


In my opinion the Aimpoint T1 with a LaRue mount is the best general purpose optic you can get.


No experience with the Brakeout but Im very leary of most brakes. They tend to be loud, and are more for competition than a home defense gun. Although the brakeout combines both a FH and brake into one if they are anything like the PWS brake/FH it will be quite a bit louder than a standard FH like the A2. The KAC Triple Tap is the first and only brake Ive used that doesn't ring my bell with each shot, or with people shooting in close proximity. Pricey but worth it to me. Since this will be your primary GTG gun I would not put a brake on it.





So to sum things up I think you'd do well to get a DD or BCM mid length complete upper, and go from there as far as rail. Id also look at LaRue for a light/mount combo as well. A decent light is crucial on a home/self defense carbine.

[JRDavis89]

Belmont and Ski I really appreciate the feedback and advice.

This build is all coming my gunsmith (who also is a really good friend) along with my final say in the matter. I traded a hunting rifle to his dad in return for him to build me a complete lower along with a trigger job, cerakoting some of the rifle, and any gunsmithing I might need. The YHM lower was purchased for $109 (after transfer and tax) and the DPMS parts kit was ridiculously cheap. (This is just insight to some of my choices) The lower is completely built now and I need to get a pic up soon.

In response to the trigger-Is it not known for being reliable?> I went with single stage due to reliability and the adjustable side for piece of mind. (I am not complaining, refusing, or dismissing any comments, advice or suggestions, I just would like to know why it is not reliable, so I can replace it if need be.)

I think I probably am asking too much out of this rifle. It will probably will be my only AR for a while due too money. I want it to be a rifle that I shoot ALOT and also be a GTG for HD and every week/month range use.

I realize that some parts for this kind of build don't make sense, and those are the parts that I have not decided on.

I really like the idea, strength, and sexiness of the VLTOR MUR, but I don't know if I will put it through the abuse it deserves to justify its price tag. I want a barrel that will last extremely long, and be accurate out to 200 yards. I honestly don't care who makes it as longs as it performs.

Belmont and Ski I am really leaning towards a midlength gun now, and realize that I probably need to swap out my carbine buffer for an "H" one.

Thanks again guys, and any more advice/comments are greatly appreciated.

[Kiznelly]

I will concur with the DPMS LPK. If BCM will stock them what else is to be said? I sent mine off to Bill Springfield.

I had bought my DPMS LPK with an Aero Precision lower when they were $124 together so I didn't cringe at the $38 mailbox to mailbox it cost for Bill Springfields work.

Putting together ARs has been fun and expensive.

[Belmont31R]

Be leary of the random gunsmith trigger job. There are plenty of factory triggers out there that can do whatever you want a trigger to do without having to have a gunsmith go to town on something. AR's are very easy to work on and put together but also very easy to make a simple mistake making for an unreliable gun at best. Its like putting Lego's together but if you put one part together wrong the whole thing isnt going to be "right".


3lbs is very light for a "combat gun" trigger. The lightest I would go is 4lbs, and that is on the light side. 3lbs is much more of a match trigger pull. DPMS parts kits are cheap but you pay for what you get.


Also I tend to be cautious of triggers with adjustment screws. If one of them comes loose its going to FUBAR you entire gun until you get it fixed. If you really want a nice "combat" trigger I strongly suggest the Geisselle SSA. Its a 2 stage combat trigger that does not have any adjustments, and is at 4.5lbs IIRC. I have several of them, and they are very reliable. Ive not heard of one breaking, and its a significant improvement over a USGI trigger. Lots of people on here use them, and they do the job well.


Ive not seen any scientific data on the MUR compared to a forged upper as far as strength but forged AL is always stronger that billet lb for lb. This is why so many billet parts look overbuilt. Its because to get the same strength in a part as a forged unit they need to be thicker and over-engineered. Billet is still fine for an AR as Ive also not heard of any billet parts breaking more than forged. So in the end its more of a looks type of thing rather than functionality.


An H-buffer should make a carbine and mid length system run a little bit more smoothly but you should always run whats most reliable. Some barrels might be a little under-gassed, and a carbine buffer may work better if the gun short strokes. A lot of people seem to have issues using a strong CS spring, and a heavy buffer when shooting weak ammo especially as the gun dries up from shooting, and the receiver becomes fouled. I personally run all my guns, when new, for 1k rounds without cleaning, and not adding lube once the shooting starts just to make sure that particular setup works properly. Ill shoot a variety of ammo if possible from full power 5.56 spec loads to weaker .223 loads. One time I had to switch from a H to a carbine buffer to get the gun working.


My general opinion is unless you are running an SBR the mid length is the way to go. Its a great setup, and makes more use of a 16" barrel. If you are going to go with a 16" barrel you might as well push that gas block out a couple more inches, and let the gun cycle smoother. Carbine gas systems tend to recoil like a quick jab while mid lengths are a soft push. The KAC SR15 has a gas system even slightly longer than a mid length, and is even a little bit smoother than that. Makes follow up shots easier, and is going to be easier on parts in the long run.

[bkb0000]

Ive not seen any scientific data on the MUR compared to a forged upper as far as strength but forged AL is always stronger that billet lb for lb. This is why so many billet parts look overbuilt. Its because to get the same strength in a part as a forged unit they need to be thicker and over-engineered. Billet is still fine for an AR as Ive also not heard of any billet parts breaking more than forged. So in the end its more of a looks type of thing rather than functionality.

the MUR is actually forged 7075-t6, not billet. they were 6013 billet when they first came out, but switched a long time ago.

and you've got it a little backwards on the reason for beefy billet uppers- they're not beefy because they're machined from billet, they're machined from billet to achieve a beefy upper. a beefy billet upper, even in the slightly softer 6061, is way more rigid than any standard forged upper. also, a lot of billet manfers are now using forged 7075 billets to make their uppers anyway.

the reason machined billet uppers came on the scene was to reduce receiver flex from long, heavy barrels in HP shooting. it caught on elsewhere, and so the beefy receiver craze set in.

[Brademan]

I'm piggy backing JR's thread here, because I'm in the same mode as he: new guy, lots of lurking and learning, doing a build of my own. It's my second AR and the first one I've actually decided to build. Been shooting for 40 years, just not the AR platform, so this is a fun learning curve.

You know the story; a friend stopped by a dealer and bought a pair of lowers. Good deal, gave me one, and here I go!

My other AR is a Bushy ORC, which shoots fine and does what I want it to do. Now, I'm looking for a longer range rifle set up, and this is a great forum for the info I need. Thanks to bkb0000 for the story on forged/billet differences and derivations. Now, I know more than I did!

I'll keep researching and ask, when I have specifics. Thanks again!