"...vets already know: civilian gun culture is a dysfunctional mess"

[SteyrAUG]

There are occasionally some things uttered by former .mil guys that might fly in front of civilians, but in front of real BTDT Soldiers, eh, not so much.
1) Anything that starts with "I was a Reserve ......". Really? That lends zero real world credibility to anything you say relating to anything Active Duty and most things Training.
2) "I worked in, Public Affairs, Military Intelligence or even Veteranary Services and I'm here to tell you all about your small arms training." Said no one at any time in a room full of Senior Combat Arms NCO's. You don't do that, I don't care how smart or bad ass you might be, don't do that.
3) I was a Reserve Officer thirty years ago and now this article is going to explain why civilian small arms training sucks and they shouldn't have the right to keep a .......

Suddenly the light bulb should flicker on and you should understand this is just another version of the Blue Falcon game.
He isn't credible and if you take anything he says to heart you're an idiot and you'll get screwed.

Yep. I can honestly preface any comment with "I have been an instructor of law enforcement and military" which should automatically bestow advanced Jedi master status, but the reality of that is in many cases I simply demoed a new weapon or suppressor to a group to entice them to make a purchase.

So while the former is technically true, the latter is less impressive.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Shit, sorry. Chris Kyle. Got my Kyles confused.

I was gonna say....

Damn I just spoke with him (Kyle Lamb) in person two weeks ago.

I think the MI guy has half a point.
Truth is most civilians do not even attempt to avail themselves of the training that is out there. Mil and LEO on the other hand do have a minimum of training required, the quality thereof is debatable but they have it.
Naturally we know that we as civilians (and LEO specific training) at a much higher degree of quality is available that a small percentage even take advantage of. If they wish to pay for it and learn from it. I put it that way as I recall a fellow Gunsite student in my class that took the course, sucked badly, but allowed he just wanted to be able to brag that he went there. (Late 80's)

I always thought it would be a good idea for every high school student in our country to do this with an M4.... (can you just imagine, look how they use to bitch about prayer in school lol). No amount of "training" would have prevented these types of mass murders unless of course the victims were also armed.

[Caduceus]

A more common line of discussion among (war) vets would include probable outcome of a shooting in a school that contained a hundred loaded, slung M4’s.

Probably a lot of blue on blue.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The best part of the video is the apprehension on the kids faces. Screw this up and there will be, consequences.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Personally, I am 100% against any type of training requirement prior to exercising fundamental rights. A right "granted" by the government after completing some arbitrary requirement flies in the face of the Constitution and why it the bill of rights were established.

That said, I don't think "gun people" have enough of a unified culture or voice to communicate with. We should come across as absolutely zealous about safety, practice, and developing skill. That message might play well in a venue like this board, but there are a lot of gun owning demographics that balk at being told they should have to obey the "rules."

Outside of Cooper's rules, I would actually really like to see some kind of expected standards (note: expected, not required) that we could all point to and hold each other accountable for. I don't know if it would be the CMP, NRA, or whoever that puts it together- but it would honestly be a good PR move for us (as a minimum).

[26 Inf]

Outside of Cooper's rules, I would actually really like to see some kind of expected standards (note: expected, not required) that we could all point to and hold each other accountable for. I don't know if it would be the CMP, NRA, or whoever that puts it together- but it would honestly be a good PR move for us (as a minimum).

I think NSSF should take more of a lead in this. They just recently started 'Have A Brave Conversation' a program aimed at helping address suicides. As the organization for most manufacturers and retailers, they have a lot of skin in the game.

[sgtrock82]

Hey, I date from the 80's! Army grunt. 110% pro-Second Amendment.

I took the liberty of bashing the 90s army because "I was there, man!"

My battalion commander was an anti gun piece of trash. Not just a notion, I heard the man speak negatively of firearm ownership while looking a photos I had posted in my barracks room during a command inspection. Thankfully a heart attack felled him not too terribly long afterwards.

One of my battery commanders was absolutely awesome, had a C&R license and encouraged me to get my own. Occasionally he passed me his old shotgun news'

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

[flenna]

I will agree to training requirements for firearms ownership when it becomes mandatory to pass an intelligence test to vote.

[mark5pt56]

Being in a position to see a cross section of shooters, it's like driving, talking, etc, etc. Some can't get out of the driveway, others can, some can get back after hitting the highway and some can even talk while doing it, others can't even talk to the dog. Handling a gun and shooting it is the same.
I often think of a public program to teach basic safety, handling, use and storage, free to qualified individuals. If we are spending money, why not on something useful?

[fledge]

Personally, I am 100% against any type of training requirement prior to exercising fundamental rights. A right "granted" by the government after completing some arbitrary requirement flies in the face of the Constitution and why it the bill of rights were established.

That said, I don't think "gun people" have enough of a unified culture or voice to communicate with. We should come across as absolutely zealous about safety, practice, and developing skill. That message might play well in a venue like this board, but there are a lot of gun owning demographics that balk at being told they should have to obey the "rules."

Outside of Cooper's rules, I would actually really like to see some kind of expected standards (note: expected, not required) that we could all point to and hold each other accountable for. I don't know if it would be the CMP, NRA, or whoever that puts it together- but it would honestly be a good PR move for us (as a minimum).

100%. Well said.