"...vets already know: civilian gun culture is a dysfunctional mess"

[26 Inf]

"Compared to the weapons training that military and law enforcement personnel undergo, the training required of civilian gun owners is a joke."

L-O-Effing-L! I know cops who PREFER to train among civilians because of too many colleagues who can't be bothered with the Four Rules and are Walking ND's-Waiting-To-Happen... and the LEO's and CCW's I used to shoot with in college, what the Department calls an 'annual qual' we used as a frickin' warmup drill.

First of all, I'm not on this guy's side.

I think that if you had a broader experience than just in your area you would find that for the most part LE rangemasters run pretty safe ranges.

Yes individual officers have differing skill levels, but 'training' usually occurs under some degree of supervision to ensure safety. In terms of training required, I'd be surprised if any state's POST Requires less than 40 hours of range training for certification. Plus, almost every state has adopted the provisions of LEOSA and have state mandated yearly qualifications in addition to whatever qualification requirements an individual agency has in place.

I do believe those standards are universally higher than the standards required nationally to get a CCW. As they should be, IMHO.

So unless your LE buddies are shooting with competition shooters or serious LARPers (as I call them) I'd rather take my chances on a LE range. There is a reason that unless it is someone that I shoot with regularly, or have trained, I leave the range rather than share the line at my gun club.

Realistically, unless a citizen wants to hunt, and therefore take hunter safety, there is no national requirement of any training for a firearms purchase. Once again, as it should be, IMHO. So the idiot writing the article was correct in that aspect.

Additionally my friend, (John McCain says that a lot so I knew you'd appreciate it) you need to decide which side of the fence you are on. Recently you posted that you haven't made a range trip for 17 years (I believe) because of the unsafe 'civilians'.

Cheerio.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What a tortured way (almost waterboarded) to get background checks, training, and accountability in the discussion. BGCs in a military context is the worst twisted point. Training, sure would be nice if there weren’t as many clueless people out there, but the reality is that when comes to gun handling or actual shooting situations, ‘untrained civilians’ do pretty well. How many videos are there of FBI and LEOs shooting the ceiling or themselves during a gun safety demonstration at a school. The ‘training’ is all about the equivalent of voter literacy laws in the south- meant to curb civil rights and add cost. The accountability is also to increase the cost of ownership with mandatory gun insurance and pressing for ‘safer guns’ by being able to sue sellers and manufacturers.

So this guy served in MI reserves for 7 years, so he is more of a badass than me. It wouldn’t take much to find someone higher up the badass pyramid who vehemently disagrees with him 180. Are we supposed to go up the pyramid to to get the final word on what civil rights that MIL types would allow us to have, eventually ending at the top with the guy who shot UBL in the face?

As an aside, the left has morphed so much to the Progressive mold that the supposed ‘rebels’ almost always fall to the appeal to authority pretty quickly. 99% of climate scientists, 50 former US attorneys, 3 of 4 dentists all say that you should follow the Progressive plan or else....

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Is there a national LEOSA shooting course of fire for handgun, shotgun and/or rifle certification/passing? Stats on scores?

[SteyrAUG]

One could easily argue the reverse of that argument given who shot Kyle Lamb.

And of course it wouldn't apply to all, but that's true on both sides of the equation.

[LMT Shooter]

One could easily argue the reverse of that argument given who shot Kyle Lamb.

And of course it wouldn't apply to all, but that's true on both sides of the equation.

Kyle Lamb got shot? When did this happen?

[MountainRaven]

Kyle Lamb got shot? When did this happen?

I think he meant, "Chris Kyle."

And if we're going that route, there's the Beltway shooter, the "Texas Tower Sniper", and the guy who shot JFK.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think he meant, "Chris Kyle."

And if we're going that route, there's the Beltway shooter, the "Texas Tower Sniper", and the guy who shot JFK.

From that book suppository.

Tim McVeigh if you want to take guns out of it.

[LMT Shooter]

I think he meant, "Chris Kyle."

And if we're going that route, there's the Beltway shooter, the "Texas Tower Sniper", and the guy who shot JFK.

I replied before I googled it

[SteyrAUG]

Kyle Lamb got shot? When did this happen?

Shit, sorry. Chris Kyle. Got my Kyles confused.

[LMT Shooter]

I lost 15 minutes of my life googling that. I never thought about Chris Kyle when I read your post.