"...vets already know: civilian gun culture is a dysfunctional mess"

[soulezoo]

I think the MI guy has half a point.
Truth is most civilians do not even attempt to avail themselves of the training that is out there. Mil and LEO on the other hand do have a minimum of training required, the quality thereof is debatable but they have it.
Naturally we know that we as civilians (and LEO specific training) at a much higher degree of quality is available that a small percentage even take advantage of. If they wish to pay for it and learn from it. I put it that way as I recall a fellow Gunsite student in my class that took the course, sucked badly, but allowed he just wanted to be able to brag that he went there. (Late 80's)

[flenna]

From that book suppository.

Tim McVeigh if you want to take guns out of it.

No wonder they didn't find the gunman, anyone in a suppository may never be found!

[SteyrAUG]

I think the MI guy has half a point.

Yes he has half a point but no viable solution. I personally know a federal agent who left her duty weapon in a public bathroom at work. Does that mean federal agents should be required to undergo a higher degree of firearms training? Or does it mean no matter what group be it military, LE or civie you are still going to get a f-tard contingent that no amount of training can ever fix.

Couple that in with firearms being a "civil right" that can only be denied to prohibited persons and we have a less than perfect situation. The same situation that lets racists run for office and actual socialists / communists to be elected.

The hard part is the balance of securing the rights of everyone and addressing the safety issues that go hand in hand with a population that is largely free to do what they want UNTIL they demonstrate they cannot do so without violating the law, and once done that is of course after the fact.

[soulezoo]

Yes he has half a point but no viable solution. I personally know a federal agent who left her duty weapon in a public bathroom at work. Does that mean federal agents should be required to undergo a higher degree of firearms training? Or does it mean no matter what group be it military, LE or civie you are still going to get a f-tard contingent that no amount of training can ever fix.

Couple that in with firearms being a "civil right" that can only be denied to prohibited persons and we have a less than perfect situation. The same situation that lets racists run for office and actual socialists / communists to be elected.

The hard part is the balance of securing the rights of everyone and addressing the safety issues that go hand in hand with a population that is largely free to do what they want UNTIL they demonstrate they cannot do so without violating the law, and once done that is of course after the fact.

On this, we ageee

[sgtrock82]

Just more gibberish from a detached egotistical reservist officer....(from the effin' 90s no less!) Civilians by and large are way over impressed by the average service member and their opinions on worldly matters. Based on my encounters many civilians seem to think even finance clerks and civil affairs folks are trained badasses whose abilities with hands, knives and guns are unequalled... if only they were capable of understanding the truth that the military exercises gun control mostly for accountability and loss prevention and only slightly lesser so that the number of accidental and aggravated incidents amoung these "highly trained" individuals would be quite impressive.

Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

[ABNAK]

Just more gibberish from a detached egotistical reservist officer....(from the effin' 90s no less!) Civilians by and large are way over impressed by the average service member and their opinions on worldly matters. Based on my encounters many civilians seem to think even finance clerks and civil affairs folks are trained badasses whose abilities with hands, knives and guns are unequalled... if only they were capable of understanding the truth that the military exercises gun control mostly for accountability and loss prevention and only slightly lesser so that the number of accidental and aggravated incidents amoung these "highly trained" individuals would be quite impressive.

Hey, I date from the 80's! Army grunt. 110% pro-Second Amendment.

[26 Inf]

Is there a national LEOSA shooting course of fire for handgun, shotgun and/or rifle certification/passing? Stats on scores?

Each state was charged with putting their own into place.

In terms of difficulty, I have it on good authority that one staff, charged with doing it for federal and local officer retirees whose former agencies didn't make the qual available for them, called it either 'Geezer Qual' or 'No Shooter Left Behind' alternatively.

[26 Inf]

Just more gibberish from a detached egotistical reservist officer....(from the effin' 90s no less!) Civilians by and large are way over impressed by the average service member and their opinions on worldly matters. Based on my encounters many civilians seem to think even finance clerks and civil affairs folks are trained badasses whose abilities with hands, knives and guns are unequalled...

Oh yeah, what about Chief Ryback, he was a cook.

[titsonritz]

Oh yeah, what about Chief Ryback, he was a cook.

a lowly, lowly cook.

[Averageman]

There are occasionally some things uttered by former .mil guys that might fly in front of civilians, but in front of real BTDT Soldiers, eh, not so much.
1) Anything that starts with "I was a Reserve ......". Really? That lends zero real world credibility to anything you say relating to anything Active Duty and most things Training.
2) "I worked in, Public Affairs, Military Intelligence or even Veteranary Services and I'm here to tell you all about your small arms training." Said no one at any time in a room full of Senior Combat Arms NCO's. You don't do that, I don't care how smart or bad ass you might be, don't do that.
3) I was a Reserve Officer thirty years ago and now this article is going to explain why civilian small arms training sucks and they shouldn't have the right to keep a .......

Suddenly the light bulb should flicker on and you should understand this is just another version of the Blue Falcon game.
He isn't credible and if you take anything he says to heart you're an idiot and you'll get screwed.