Is Economic Collapse Already Here?

[26 Inf]

I can see most of this except the food industry growth. It's not my professional field, but what I read is that restaurant traffic is declining and has been for years, and that the grocery business is even more fractional-percent-margin cutthroat than it always has been. What part of the food industry is growing?

The trend I've noticed locally is that more restaurants are opening and that, as a sum total, restaurants are less crowded then they were. I think this is exacerbated in communities our size (40,000ish). We are at the point that when one restaurant opens, pretty soon after, another one closes. In the last year we've lost a Five Guys Burgers and a Pie Five Pizza. Both closed around the time a new Chic-fil-A opened. And our Chamber seems to think we really, really, need either a Ruby Tuesdays or TGI Friday's.

My family - until me - had been grocers or butchers. 2% was doing good back then. Today, I would hate to be a small town independent grocer. I have a good friend who has a small town grocery about 16 miles down the road from a WalMart SuperCenter. He can't get Pepsi products delivered for what I can buy them for at WalMart. He stays afloat because of his high quality meats and cheeses.

Times are tough, unless your........

[Honu]

the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money

many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many

[Doc Safari]

the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money

many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many

I personally think the Tiny House TV show is a fraud. Example: one episode showed the front door having to open outward, and therefore the hinges were exposed. No one in their right mind would build a house like that because all a burgar has to do is drift out the hinge pins and enter the house. I say that show is for the TV audience and has nothing to do with reality. There have also been other instances of what I call "reality show fraud" on that program. For example, in more than one episode the bathroom is so close to the kitchen as to be unfeasible. Imagine someone taking a stinky poop right next to where food is being prepared. And I don't care if the "bathroom" has multiple ventilation sources like a window or exhaust fan, that's downright disgusting and I doubt anyone living in that space would exist in it very long without the unmistakable odor of crap wafting through the cabin. No amount of poo-pourri is going to make a dent in that either. I say the tiny house thing is mostly a fad and a fraud that will die quickly.

[Honu]

I personally think the Tiny House TV show is a fraud. Example: one episode showed the front door having to open outward, and therefore the hinges were exposed. No one in their right mind would build a house like that because all a burgar has to do is drift out the hinge pins and enter the house. I say that show is for the TV audience and has nothing to do with reality. There have also been other instances of what I call "reality show fraud" on that program. For example, in more than one episode the bathroom is so close to the kitchen as to be unfeasible. Imagine someone taking a stinky poop right next to where food is being prepared. And I don't care if the "bathroom" has multiple ventilation sources like a window or exhaust fan, that's downright disgusting and I doubt anyone living in that space would exist in it very long without the unmistakable odor of crap wafting through the cabin. No amount of poo-pourri is going to make a dent in that either. I say the tiny house thing is mostly a fad and a fraud that will die quickly.

never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. that is pretty sad and funny though hahahahahhahaha


have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly

agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her

720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..

many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on

but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young

many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?

[flenna]

never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. that is pretty sad and funny though hahahahahhahaha


have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly

agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her

720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..

many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on

but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young

many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?

Wow. Two years ago I bought a 2800 sq ft home on 7.5 acres with a spring fed creek, a barn and fenced for $240k.

[ramairthree]

We have several factors leading to a precarious, propped up economy.

We used to have solid, blue collar jobs with good benefits and good pay. We used to have a small portion of the economy with college educations. A significant portion of the college educated had actually knocked out some hard stuff. We have shifted to a ton of people with service jobs and poor benefits. With a third of the population having degrees. Many of which have done nothing more arduous than a HS diploma used to be. We also have degree creep. With degrees for the same thing having higher levels. And being easier to get. We have also shifted a ton of money into non productive recipients. Whether it be via welfar, disability, or simply rewarding the advertising guy, sales guy, or entertainers in high proportion.

Our standard of living is through the roof. Home square footage, toy cars, boats, motorcycles, cruises, trips to Vegas, huge TVs, etc. abound. Low interest, tons of credit, both parents working, and several other factors go into this.

There is no public shame or common morals anymore. That unleashes the populace to let the government foot the bill for their life.

We also go out of our way to import immigrants that will be on the negative side of economics. Sure, the farmers, contractors, etc. get cheap labor. But the ERs, schools, etc. eat far more in costs. And that is for immigrants that work. A far cry from guaranteed welfare roll expanders many of the others are.

Much of the money and profit being made is in non productive assets. Sports stadiums, real estate bubbles, internet service sales, etc. They are not tied to a produced asset.

Many of these life styles, salaries, and benefits are tied to a government job. Funding by local, state, federal, or other budgets running on a deficit and non sustainable income/expenditure model.

Look at the microcosms of healthcare, education, etc. and see how each is a slice of the pie. In health care, Highly educated expensive workers, high tech costly equipment, etc. surrounded by administrators, lawyers, and such driving up the costs. Serving a population driving up needs through self inflicted issues, paid for by others. With a ton of money going to advertisers, sales reps, and insurance executives. In education, cities such as Baltimore demonstrate having a ton of employees with great pay and benefits for shitty workers combined with the highest possible costs per student result in, well, no results.

The recipients are out of control biting the hand that feeds them wanting more. The producers are tired of this. The accepted social norms that allowed the development of a highly functioning society are in tatters.

This cannot go on indefinitely.

[RetroRevolver77]

never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. that is pretty sad and funny though hahahahahhahaha


have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly

agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her

720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..

many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on

but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young

many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?

Around here you can buy a brand new 2200 sq/ft home for about $250K.

[flenna]

We have several factors leading to a precarious, propped up economy.

We used to have solid, blue collar jobs with good benefits and good pay. We used to have a small portion of the economy with college educations. A significant portion of the college educated had actually knocked out some hard stuff. We have shifted to a ton of people with service jobs and poor benefits. With a third of the population having degrees. Many of which have done nothing more arduous than a HS diploma used to be. We also have degree creep. With degrees for the same thing having higher levels. And being easier to get. We have also shifted a ton of money into non productive recipients. Whether it be via welfar, disability, or simply rewarding the advertising guy, sales guy, or entertainers in high proportion.

Our standard of living is through the roof. Home square footage, toy cars, boats, motorcycles, cruises, trips to Vegas, huge TVs, etc. abound. Low interest, tons of credit, both parents working, and several other factors go into this.

There is no public shame or common morals anymore. That unleashes the populace to let the government foot the bill for their life.

We also go out of our way to import immigrants that will be on the negative side of economics. Sure, the farmers, contractors, etc. get cheap labor. But the ERs, schools, etc. eat far more in costs. And that is for immigrants that work. A far cry from guaranteed welfare roll expanders many of the others are.

Much of the money and profit being made is in non productive assets. Sports stadiums, real estate bubbles, internet service sales, etc. They are not tied to a produced asset.

Many of these life styles, salaries, and benefits are tied to a government job. Funding by local, state, federal, or other budgets running on a deficit and non sustainable income/expenditure model.

Look at the microcosms of healthcare, education, etc. and see how each is a slice of the pie. In health care, Highly educated expensive workers, high tech costly equipment, etc. surrounded by administrators, lawyers, and such driving up the costs. Serving a population driving up needs through self inflicted issues, paid for by others. With a ton of money going to advertisers, sales reps, and insurance executives. In education, cities such as Baltimore demonstrate having a ton of employees with great pay and benefits for shitty workers combined with the highest possible costs per student result in, well, no results.

The recipients are out of control biting the hand that feeds them wanting more. The producers are tired of this. The accepted social norms that allowed the development of a highly functioning society are in tatters.

This cannot go on indefinitely.

^^^^And this sums it all up nicely. Once the negative stigma of being on welfare went away and the politicians figured out they can keep their job by taking from the producers to give to the non-contributors it started the decline of the great Republic.

[RetroRevolver77]

the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money

many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many

1400 sq/ft is considered a tiny house. 700 sq/ft is just a small apartment. Anything smaller is just a loft apartment or college dorm.

[26 Inf]

This cannot go on indefinitely.

This was an excellent summary of what I feel is wrong.

When the guy running the hospital makes more than the highest paid surgeon, something is amiss.

To many folks are charged with making employment and salary decisions using other people's money.