A reminder. Know your zero or don't carry it

[1911-A1]

I discovered it shot very high with the stock G27 sights. (About 14 inches high at 25 yds.) So I put my choice of Ameriglo's on it including a taller front sight. It ended up being too tall but I was prepared for that. It shot about 10 inches low at 25 yds. I milled down the front sight and it should be shooting at or close to where I want it now.

This is the scariest part to me. A difference of that much is easily capable of missing your target in a social setting. Is that much variation normal for barrel/caliber changes? It seems extreme to me.

[MegademiC]

Good reminder. The biggest thing is knowing the capability of the gun in your hands. What size target needs to be available to ensure a hit? Is the threat sideways? Just a headshot available? Whats beyond the threat?

Ive carried guns without checking zero- but i understood that a 25yd shot would be risky. 10yds I was not worried about it, but definately checked zero first opportunity.

[26 Inf]

As for your experience, apart from meth they may have Hepatitis C or HIV so a close contact confrontation is something to avoid.

Sidestepping to the left is more important than stepping backwards to get out of line from an attacker.

Particularly for a right handed gun wielding assailant (as most people miss low and to the left - your right side).

I can think of all kinds of reasons to move left, as an example, it is more difficult for a right handed shooter to track you if you move to the left.

DEspite that, the most important thing is to just move, get off the threat axis. You will not have time to determine what hand the weapon is in and move accordingly. I believe it was Jeff Cooper who advised against falling prey to the 'paralysis or analysis.' Don't do that get moving.

Additionally the fight happens where the fight happens, not in that nice environment we imagine in our mind. What happens if there is a wall to your left, or busy traffic?

The important thing is move. Move fast and move far, not just a side step or two. Practice sidestepping left and right, practice driving in at an angle left and right (driving in at an angle is my suggested default) even practice backing out - although that is usually not the best option.

I'm left handed so I always walk with anyone I'm with to my right, which works well because the less evolved members of society (everyone but me LOL) are right handed. I'm by nature set up to move left.

As a right handed person, if you make the choice to walk to the left of your companion, you run the risk of them grabbing an arm if startled, or bumping your arm during the draw stroke. So I'd buck normal convention and walk on my partner's right side.

In this situation, moving left cuts you across your partners line of sight. I'd avoid that. Upon initial contact your response should be to move away from your partner - the assailant will normally focus on movement, you are creating distance between you and your partner and clearing lanes of fire. Discuss these things with those with whom you work and/or associate.

When the time comes the most important thing is to move, get off the bullseye. If you want rules: 1) move as drawing, don't draw and move; 2) move away from those in close proximity.

If you don't agree with my logic on this, that is fine, supply your own, but know why you are doing what you are doing and share that info with those who need the info.

As a trainer I long ago realized that I could talk all I wanted about SA and that really had no bearing on what condition the guy was in when the shit hit the fan. Most often things happen because the person is on auto-pilot - just walking into the store from there car, or approaching a vehicle to issue a speeding citation - not thinking about anything in particular. I came to conclusion that the best thing I could do to ensure their survival under those circumstances was to instill the movement response.

I hesitate to say instinctively move, because it is not instinct, but damn, in case you haven't been listening MOVE AGGRESSIVELY.

BTW - I would advise against making a shoot decision based on the probabilities of your assailant having an infectious disease.

[Ron3]

Great tips.

I did briefly consider drawing (RH, he approached to my 4 o'clock) but for those who are new, what do you do when you've drawn and one apparently unarmed person comes at you? Yea, that's a bad situation.

A gun is not our only weapon or solution. I'm also a big proponent of moving. Rule #1 for me isn't to have a gun, it's to not get shot. (Or stabbed)

But back on the gun. I think it's very important to practice drawing one handed from concealment. We see that a lot in evidence videos from around the world. That could really save you.

As for what level of accuracy is desired by me; it's putting rounds into a group the size of a heart or brain. About 4 inches. But per the point of the thread, it's not just the size of the group, but precisely it's center.

[ggammell]

I never thought to do this until I RMR’d a G19. It was when I zeroed my RMR and tried to get it the same as the irons that I said hey, somethings off here. Took that lesson learned home to my iron sight only Glocks and went to see what the zero was there. Amazingly, once figuring that out, my B8 bulls eye scores started sky rocketing. Imagine that.

[Coal Dragger]

Thanks OP, this further validates my insistence on shooting my carry gun (VP9) out to 50 yards every range trip, and making sure it is zeroed.

I don’t care if I get strange looks from all the old guys shooting off the bench rests on the rifle range while I shoot a 9mm pistol standing up at 50 yards.

[pubb]

If you're shooting someone - and an unarmed someone at that - from 50 yards, expect to see a courtroom. And I would wager that the likelihood of marksman meth heads shooting people from 90 feet away (as mentioned by the OP) is on par with getting struck by lightning after winning the lottery on February 29.

Yes, you need to know your guns, and especially their POI relative to POA for a given ammunition. Yes, you need to have your wits about you. But you also need to have a reality check with regard to the actual degree of risk. Castle doctrine doesn't apply on a public street. It is legal for people to approach you on the street. Depending on the location, it may even be legal to panhandle for money. Whipping out a sidearm because someone dirty approaches you is asking for trouble. If you can't articulate a risk to your safety beyond "meth zombie", steel shouldn't be clearing leather.

My $0.02

[26 Inf]

pubb - that was worth at least a dime.

[HeruMew]

If you're shooting someone - and an unarmed someone at that - from 50 yards, expect to see a courtroom. And I would wager that the likelihood of marksman meth heads shooting people from 90 feet away (as mentioned by the OP) is on par with getting struck by lightning after winning the lottery on February 29.

Yes, you need to know your guns, and especially their POI relative to POA for a given ammunition. Yes, you need to have your wits about you. But you also need to have a reality check with regard to the actual degree of risk. Castle doctrine doesn't apply on a public street. It is legal for people to approach you on the street. Depending on the location, it may even be legal to panhandle for money. Whipping out a sidearm because someone dirty approaches you is asking for trouble. If you can't articulate a risk to your safety beyond "meth zombie", steel shouldn't be clearing leather.

My $0.02

And this is why my finger tips get crossed and put in front of my sternum and moved outwards if the approach continues (interview) every time someone enters my "red zone".

I have literally dropped a bag of groceries when I was approached by a panhandler to get into interview. That part is overlooked, A lot. I can't even recall all the situations my buddies and I have been approached, and those knuckleheads keep their hands in their pockets, or their phones are filling them.

After growing up scrappy and a bigger guy getting targeted for fights, Interview was one of the best things I learned as an adult.

[26 Inf]

I remember an old training film that narrated 'many times what you have in your hands can make a difference' as an officer on a traffic stop threw his ticket book into the face of someone turning on him with a weapon. Cheesy, but it made sense.

The grocery thing, they may have been a good distraction device - if needed. The guy closes the gap with seemingly nefarious intent - shove them into his face while you move to a position of advantage.

Often one of the thing that folks with evil in mind relish seeing is us visibly react or get hyper to their presence or actions. Sometimes those obvious preps can accelerate the situation, sometimes they may shut it down, but by the same token a more subtle response usually accomplish the same deescalation.

That doesn't mean don't prepare, don't be ready, rather try to impart, 'Hey this ain't my first rodeo, I'm cool if your cool, and I'm ready if you ain't.'

Worked for me.