A reminder. Know your zero or don't carry it

[Ron3]

A couple days ago my wife and I were approached by a Meth Zombie in a parking lot. (There was no action, just verbal)

Saw him way off, but figured we could make it to the car and be moving before he got to us. If not, we'd just go back towards the store until he passed. Well, once we were committed to getting to the car and he was between us and the store, he altered course for us.

As expected he started with the, " hey, man, can you..." to which I kept moving towards the car, but responded verbally, loudly, and aggressively. This normally works, and did that day, too. They don't expect it.

He was about 30 yds away, his hands (watch'em!) Were constantly running all over his tshirt and pants as Meth Zombie do. Now I realize a Meth Zombie isn't likely to have a gun because he's going to sell it for meth. Unless he just got it. And they will likely have a knife or screw driver as a burglary tool/weapon.

He ended up getting within about 10 yards before deciding it would be safer to go towards other vehicles and resume trying door handles looking for money, valuables, or brains. (And he did) I did not draw, but was obviously prepared to go hands on. (He was taller than me, but underweight) No! I did not want to go hands on with a drug fiend.

Now about that zero. I got a steal on a Glock 27 and put a G32 .357 Glock barrel in it because I enjoy shooting it more than .40. I discovered it shot very high with the stock G27 sights. (About 14 inches high at 25 yds.) So I put my choice of Ameriglo's on it including a taller front sight. It ended up being too tall but I was prepared for that. It shot about 10 inches low at 25 yds. I milled down the front sight and it should be shooting at or close to where I want it now.

But is it? I've been carrying it for about two weeks but haven't got to shoot and verify where it's shooting. I didn't worry about it because I got complacent. Most SD scenarios are at very close range, right? Sure. But some arent. Sometimes it's a Meth head or other robber who pulled a gun on you from 30 yds away in an open area with no immediate cover to seek. Or that person on a killing spree in a store 50 yds from you (or more) and you have a clean shot from cover.

Anyway, in that moment I did not have confidence I could place bullets just where I wanted to beyond about 10 yds. I was comfortable with my skill level, but not my equipment. (I always practice from 1-25 yds and sometimes take it out to 50m.) I wished I had my Cheetah with me and left the Glock home until I'd verified the sights. My "backstop" was not very good. I'd be shooting a little upward and behind him the land drops down for several hundred yards. There was a road (very sparse traffic) about 75 yds behind him and another shopping center a couple hundred yards behind that. Really didn't want to miss.

If he had drawn a weapon I already knew I'd draw and move left while firing. It would make me harder to hit should he have a gun and put me further from my wife. (Who would have starting drawing her own gun) But the backstop would not really be any better nor was cover close.


A big help was just being in yellow and spotting the guy whIle he was about 75 yds away. That gave my OODA loop a big head start.

I just wanted to remind folks the importance of accuracy and knowing your pistol zero and bullet trajectory within the range you may ever use it. And of course practice.

[CAVDOC]

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Sadly many ccw carriers I have seen think shooting a dessert plate size group at 7 yards is plenty good enough. They also very wrongly assume guns are zeroed at the factory- the current spate of off center Glock sights proves that.

[Watrdawg]

This is a timely thread. I just picked up my M&P 2.0 9mm compact from my FFL and have not shot it yet. It is going to take the place of my G19. However, that isnt going to happen until I can get to the range, verify zero and ring it out a bit. I know more than a few people who would just throw a new weapon into a holster and start carrying that day. Not smart!!

[Ron3]

This is a timely thread. I just picked up my M&P 2.0 9mm compact from my FFL and have not shot it yet. It is going to take the place of my G19. However, that isnt going to happen until I can get to the range, verify zero and ring it out a bit. I know more than a few people who would just throw a new weapon into a holster and start carrying that day. Not smart!!

I made that mistake about 20 years ago. Carried a new Taurus revolver for a week or two. (A new DA 445 .45) Hadn't fired it yet. I did dry fire it, even though Taurus said not to. Seemed fine.

I get to the range and discover the cylinder would bind and sieze up at a point in its rotation. Depending where it was I'd get zero shots or up to three.

It revolved fine when not loaded.

So I don't care if it's new, new to me, and everything looks fine. I won't carry or rely on any gun until I verify it works. Not even a stash gun at the house.

[Doc Safari]

On a subject related to knowing your zero, I can add "know your gun."

Your scenario is exactly why I stopped collecting a little of everything and decided to stick to one or two guns.

Once you get the hang of what you carry and stick to it, your confidence goes up and your muscle memory becomes your greatest asset.

In other words, don't carry a 1911 sometimes, a Glock sometimes, an M & P Shield sometimes, a Beretta M9 sometimes, etc.

[ST911]

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Sadly many ccw carriers I have seen think shooting a dessert plate size group at 7 yards is plenty good enough.

Well, it's certainly more than enough for most of the bell curve. It should never be where the journey ends though. Dessert-plates (~B8 ish) accuracy is quite a feat for a massive amount of the gun toting population, and that's calm on a square range. Hits on a dessert plate, or even an A and -0 zone at fighting speed are a tall order even for many armed professionals.

[CDR_Glock]

You’re absolutely right about ensuring zero. Particularly when changing brands or loads of ammo.

I notice this with regards to bullet drop or rise when changing ammunition.

My Trijicon RMR indicates that my 147 grain ammo is 1.5 inches lower than 115 grain ammo at just 10 yards.

With the Smith 500 or 454 Casull changing bullet grain weight can change my point of impact significant at 50 yards and 100 yards. Hence it’s important to have a red dot or adjustable sights.

If someone has fixed sights, one has to determine whether a center or combat hold or a 6:00 hold is necessary since there is no way to account for drops apart from getting a different height on the front sight.

As for your experience, apart from meth they may have Hepatitis C or HIV so a close contact confrontation is something to avoid.

I’m lucky It is not rampant in my city. When I walk around I have three firearms on me, and my hand is always resting on the revolver in my pocket when I am out and about. Sidestepping to the left is more important than stepping backwards to get out of line from an attacker, Particularly for a right handed gun wielding assailant (as most people miss low and to the left - your right side).




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[Doc Safari]

As for your experience, apart from meth they may have Hepatitis C or HIV so a close contact confrontation is something to avoid.

Excellent point. Remember not to shoot somebody at a close enough range that the "red mist" gets all over you. Never personally witnessed it myself, but LEO friends of mine have cautioned me about it over the years. Always thought it was an Old Wives' tale but too many have talked about it for me not to make a mental note of it.

[Ron3]

As for your experience, apart from meth they may have Hepatitis C or HIV so a close contact confrontation is something to avoid.


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I didn't think about that at the time but wasn't sure how to avoid. That's certainly something we'd want to articulate to a grand jury should it ever go that far.

It's hard (legally) to use deadly force unless your a female, disabled, outnumbered, etc. Without ending up deep in the "legal system".

But no, I really didn't want to go hands on. (Or even feet) Or shoot an empty-handed assailant.

[gaijin]

I am picky about POA/POI.

Even with fixed sight carry guns (yes, I have adjustable RS's on some and none have broken/lost zero) I will shoot from bench at 25 yds. and if impact is not directly on top of FS (or dead center of Tritium dot), I order a replacement of the proper height.
Here's a sight height "calculator"/tutorial. https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-calculator/

Additionally I prefer a lot of daylight between front and rear blade- and don't care for the standard .125"+- FS's that are usually used.
I run a .090" to .100" width FS's with standard RS. I order these from Dawson or mill an existing if necessary.

Tritium are the exception. With the size/diameter of tritium vial being the limiting factor.
I've found it's possible to end up with around .110" to .115" width with the Tritium FS's, but haven't found anyone willing to do this due to liability concerns.

I'd add I'm in complete agreement with Doc G. A hodgepodge of carry gun systems is a bad plan.
My carry guns, being a dinosaur, are 1911's or P-35/BHP's.
Exception being a Kahr PM9 for deep conceal, due to light, DAO style trigger- I shot a lot of "K"/"L" frames in PPC/NRA Action Pistol at one time. That transition is seamless for me.