A reminder. Know your zero or don't carry it

[HeruMew]

If you're shooting someone - and an unarmed someone at that - from 50 yards, expect to see a courtroom. And I would wager that the likelihood of marksman meth heads shooting people from 90 feet away (as mentioned by the OP) is on par with getting struck by lightning after winning the lottery on February 29.

Yes, you need to know your guns, and especially their POI relative to POA for a given ammunition. Yes, you need to have your wits about you. But you also need to have a reality check with regard to the actual degree of risk. Castle doctrine doesn't apply on a public street. It is legal for people to approach you on the street. Depending on the location, it may even be legal to panhandle for money. Whipping out a sidearm because someone dirty approaches you is asking for trouble. If you can't articulate a risk to your safety beyond "meth zombie", steel shouldn't be clearing leather.

My $0.02

And this is why my finger tips get crossed and put in front of my sternum and moved outwards if the approach continues (interview) every time someone enters my "red zone".

I have literally dropped a bag of groceries when I was approached by a panhandler to get into interview. That part is overlooked, A lot. I can't even recall all the situations my buddies and I have been approached, and those knuckleheads keep their hands in their pockets, or their phones are filling them.

After growing up scrappy and a bigger guy getting targeted for fights, Interview was one of the best things I learned as an adult.

[26 Inf]

I remember an old training film that narrated 'many times what you have in your hands can make a difference' as an officer on a traffic stop threw his ticket book into the face of someone turning on him with a weapon. Cheesy, but it made sense.

The grocery thing, they may have been a good distraction device - if needed. The guy closes the gap with seemingly nefarious intent - shove them into his face while you move to a position of advantage.

Often one of the thing that folks with evil in mind relish seeing is us visibly react or get hyper to their presence or actions. Sometimes those obvious preps can accelerate the situation, sometimes they may shut it down, but by the same token a more subtle response usually accomplish the same deescalation.

That doesn't mean don't prepare, don't be ready, rather try to impart, 'Hey this ain't my first rodeo, I'm cool if your cool, and I'm ready if you ain't.'

Worked for me.

[flenna]

Good thread with a lot of good information, some stuff I have just plain forgot over the years (like moving left). Also, do not forget to vet new magazines for your carry gun. For some reason I had a couple Glock mags jam when brand new, but after running several full loads through them they straightened right up and now run like a top.

[HMM]

Good story, thanks for sharing.

I had a similar incident almost 20 years ago. I had to park further down the street downtown one night when I was dating my wife. No one was out that far down so we were walking alone and a homeless guy crosses the street and starts yelling at us for money. He kept getting closer and closer and my now wife was getting scared. I finally had enough when he got within 10 yards (I had been telling him to go away already). I finally turned sharply put my left hand out in a stop position and pulled my coat back with my right and grabbed the handle of my 1911. At that point I was yelling for him to leave us alone. He finally got the hint, threw his hands up and turned around and left. I stayed put watching until he was gone.

Up until that point she always thought I was crazy for carrying a gun. She had leaned in and asked if I was carrying as he was crossing the street that night, funny how fear can change a mind...lol Since she has never said a negative word about it, even when I've had to turn around and go back because I walked out in a hurry and left it. I also started being more deliberate about carrying since that event too.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Sadly many ccw carriers I have seen think shooting a dessert plate size group at 7 yards is plenty good enough. They also very wrongly assume guns are zeroed at the factory- the current spate of off center Glock sights proves that.

Well, it's certainly more than enough for most of the bell curve. It should never be where the journey ends though. Dessert-plates (~B8 ish) accuracy is quite a feat for a massive amount of the gun toting population, and that's calm on a square range. Hits on a dessert plate, or even an A and -0 zone at fighting speed are a tall order even for many armed professionals.

We haven't made fun of NYPD lately, but look at their shot and hit ratios historically. Go to an indoor range and watch where people put shots at 7 yards. Ugh, if the plate is your standard. When we go out at night for dinner, I make sure to bring my SureFire EDCL2-T and have it in hand on the walk on the way home. 1200 lumens of F-off, plus don't need to pull the gun to use the weapon light. My teenage son carries my old 600 lumen version. Helps to get him thinking about blind spots and general SA.

[RHINOWSO]

A 1000 lumen flashlight / strobe is pretty useful during the day as well, when pointed at the eyes.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Good story, thanks for sharing.

I had a similar incident almost 20 years ago. I had to park further down the street downtown one night when I was dating my wife. No one was out that far down so we were walking alone and a homeless guy crosses the street and starts yelling at us for money. He kept getting closer and closer and my now wife was getting scared. I finally had enough when he got within 10 yards (I had been telling him to go away already). I finally turned sharply put my left hand out in a stop position and pulled my coat back with my right and grabbed the handle of my 1911. At that point I was yelling for him to leave us alone. He finally got the hint, threw his hands up and turned around and left. I stayed put watching until he was gone.

Up until that point she always thought I was crazy for carrying a gun. She had leaned in and asked if I was carrying as he was crossing the street that night, funny how fear can change a mind...lol Since she has never said a negative word about it, even when I've had to turn around and go back because I walked out in a hurry and left it. I also started being more deliberate about carrying since that event too.

It was the mighty .45 acp. So much stopping power he stopped as soon as he saw it. Probably wouldn’t have happened had you been carrying a 9mm.


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[HeruMew]

I remember an old training film that narrated 'many times what you have in your hands can make a difference' as an officer on a traffic stop threw his ticket book into the face of someone turning on him with a weapon. Cheesy, but it made sense.

The grocery thing, they may have been a good distraction device - if needed. The guy closes the gap with seemingly nefarious intent - shove them into his face while you move to a position of advantage.

Often one of the thing that folks with evil in mind relish seeing is us visibly react or get hyper to their presence or actions. Sometimes those obvious preps can accelerate the situation, sometimes they may shut it down, but by the same token a more subtle response usually accomplish the same deescalation.

That doesn't mean don't prepare, don't be ready, rather try to impart, 'Hey this ain't my first rodeo, I'm cool if your cool, and I'm ready if you ain't.'

Worked for me.

Great piece of rhetoric, creates a lot of food for thought.

Shows there is far more paths to livelihood than what meets the eye when it comes down to training/mentality.