A reminder. Know your zero or don't carry it

[flenna]

Good thread with a lot of good information, some stuff I have just plain forgot over the years (like moving left). Also, do not forget to vet new magazines for your carry gun. For some reason I had a couple Glock mags jam when brand new, but after running several full loads through them they straightened right up and now run like a top.

[HCM]

Excellent point. Remember not to shoot somebody at a close enough range that the "red mist" gets all over you. Never personally witnessed it myself, but LEO friends of mine have cautioned me about it over the years. Always thought it was an Old Wives' tale but too many have talked about it for me not to make a mental note of it.

You can see that occur in this incident:




Richmond VA PD officer shoots a naked man high on PCP. Unless things have changed the duty gun is a SIG PRO in .357 SIG. Note the taser failure and the fatally wounded suspect still ambulatory despite the fatal wounds.

[HMM]

Good story, thanks for sharing.

I had a similar incident almost 20 years ago. I had to park further down the street downtown one night when I was dating my wife. No one was out that far down so we were walking alone and a homeless guy crosses the street and starts yelling at us for money. He kept getting closer and closer and my now wife was getting scared. I finally had enough when he got within 10 yards (I had been telling him to go away already). I finally turned sharply put my left hand out in a stop position and pulled my coat back with my right and grabbed the handle of my 1911. At that point I was yelling for him to leave us alone. He finally got the hint, threw his hands up and turned around and left. I stayed put watching until he was gone.

Up until that point she always thought I was crazy for carrying a gun. She had leaned in and asked if I was carrying as he was crossing the street that night, funny how fear can change a mind...lol Since she has never said a negative word about it, even when I've had to turn around and go back because I walked out in a hurry and left it. I also started being more deliberate about carrying since that event too.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Sadly many ccw carriers I have seen think shooting a dessert plate size group at 7 yards is plenty good enough. They also very wrongly assume guns are zeroed at the factory- the current spate of off center Glock sights proves that.

Well, it's certainly more than enough for most of the bell curve. It should never be where the journey ends though. Dessert-plates (~B8 ish) accuracy is quite a feat for a massive amount of the gun toting population, and that's calm on a square range. Hits on a dessert plate, or even an A and -0 zone at fighting speed are a tall order even for many armed professionals.

We haven't made fun of NYPD lately, but look at their shot and hit ratios historically. Go to an indoor range and watch where people put shots at 7 yards. Ugh, if the plate is your standard. When we go out at night for dinner, I make sure to bring my SureFire EDCL2-T and have it in hand on the walk on the way home. 1200 lumens of F-off, plus don't need to pull the gun to use the weapon light. My teenage son carries my old 600 lumen version. Helps to get him thinking about blind spots and general SA.

[RHINOWSO]

A 1000 lumen flashlight / strobe is pretty useful during the day as well, when pointed at the eyes.

[usmcvet]

On a subject related to knowing your zero, I can add "know your gun."

Your scenario is exactly why I stopped collecting a little of everything and decided to stick to one or two guns.

Once you get the hang of what you carry and stick to it, your confidence goes up and your muscle memory becomes your greatest asset.

In other words, don't carry a 1911 sometimes, a Glock sometimes, an M & P Shield sometimes, a Beretta M9 sometimes, etc.

I'm with you on this one. With guns and holsters. Keep it simple.



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[Ron3]

You can see that occur in this incident:




Richmond VA PD officer shoots a naked man high on PCP. Unless things have changed the duty gun is a SIG PRO in .357 SIG. Note the taser failure and the fatally wounded suspect still ambulatory despite the fatal wounds.

Thanks for the video. Hadn't seen it.

Imagine your not an Officer on duty and this guy comes at ya. Most people who do carry a gun don't have a Taser or OC too.

Your options are to run (he was a fit guy on PCP, will catch you), go H2H, (He's a fit guy on PCP, your chances of winning against someone who feels no pain are very low unless your very trained and very fit.) Or, you shoot him.

Now you just shot an "unarmed" man, who is perhaps a different skin color than you. And probably no camera's to tell the story. Good luck in court in a few months/over the years, spending 10's of thousands of dollars, and your spending the night or weekend in jail.

We gotta try to hard to stay out of these incidents completely.

[pubb]

The evidence would be on your side. A naked man in broad daylight in front of lots of witnesses says a lot without you saying a word. The tox screen will likely come back positive, and in all likelihood, the person will have a rap sheet of drug arrests, petty crimes or mental health calls. Even if the person is absolutely clean (eg this is the perps first psychotic episode), he is still buck naked on a freeway. There is clearly something going on, and I would have a hard time believing officers would arrest you immediately or that a prosecutor would push the case.

I would suggest that in that situation, it would be wise if you follow Massad Ayoob's advice ("officer that man attacked me, I will sign the complaint. I will make a statement after I speak with my counsel"). There is a YouTube video to that effect, but I am on mobile and can not locate it now.

[hotrodder636]

Thanks for that link on sight height.

I am picky about POA/POI.

Even with fixed sight carry guns (yes, I have adjustable RS's on some and none have broken/lost zero) I will shoot from bench at 25 yds. and if impact is not directly on top of FS (or dead center of Tritium dot), I order a replacement of the proper height.
Here's a sight height "calculator"/tutorial. https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-calculator/

Additionally I prefer a lot of daylight between front and rear blade- and don't care for the standard .125"+- FS's that are usually used.
I run a .090" to .100" width FS's with standard RS. I order these from Dawson or mill an existing if necessary.

Tritium are the exception. With the size/diameter of tritium vial being the limiting factor.
I've found it's possible to end up with around .110" to .115" width with the Tritium FS's, but haven't found anyone willing to do this due to liability concerns.

I'd add I'm in complete agreement with Doc G. A hodgepodge of carry gun systems is a bad plan.
My carry guns, being a dinosaur, are 1911's or P-35/BHP's.
Exception being a Kahr PM9 for deep conceal, due to light, DAO style trigger- I shot a lot of "K"/"L" frames in PPC/NRA Action Pistol at one time. That transition is seamless for me.

[CPM]

I didn’t have three firearms on me in Mahmudiyah, Iraq when we were moving to contact! Where do you live?