Question: Optic AND Laser

[butlers]

Am I seeing this right? This shooter has both an optic (in this case, a holographic weapon sight) AND a visible laser?


How the heck does that sight picture work? Would you try to place the laser right at the center of the existing EOTech reticle?


Or would you slightly offset it to give you a second point of aim within the reticle?


I understand the advantage of redundancy ("two is one; one is none"), but it seems like a disadvantage to have your brain try to process two separate dots -- one from the optic (e.g. red dot sight, holographic sight, etc), and one from the laser.

[militarymoron]

Just because it's there doesn't mean they're used at the same time. It's no different than having a separate laser mounted elsewhere on the weapon. you don't generally look through the optic and use the laser at the same time.

As far as zero - it's up to the user and intended purpose. you can have the laser cross the line of sight of the optic, or maintain a parallel offset (which I think is easier to keep track of, because then you're only dealing with elevation and not both elevation and windage).

[butlers]

Just because it's there doesn't mean they're used at the same time. It's no different than having a separate laser mounted elsewhere on the weapon. you don't generally look through the optic and use the laser at the same time.

I see. So the laser battery cap on that EOTech is just a back-up to a secondary laser sighting system? (I suppose it saves rail space?)

As far as zero - it's up to the user and intended purpose. you can have the laser cross the line of sight of the optic, or maintain a parallel offset (which I think is easier to keep track of, because then you're only dealing with elevation and not both elevation and windage).

That makes sense. Thank you.

[militarymoron]

I see. So the laser battery cap on that EOTech is just a back-up to a secondary laser sighting system? (I suppose it saves rail space?)

As far as i know, no. It's meant as a primary laser, not a backup to another one. It's one of those attempts to integrate two-into-one packages. For me as lefty, it'd be a non-starter as my support hand (or light) would block the laser. I think lasers are better mounted closer to the end of the handguard, rather than back where the optic is. This is purely from my non-military/LE experience playing around with them. Experts can weigh in on this, as I may not be aware of the supporting arguments for having a laser located that far back.

[GH41]

Just because it's there doesn't mean they're used at the same time. It's no different than having a separate laser mounted elsewhere on the weapon. you don't generally look through the optic and use the laser at the same time.

As far as zero - it's up to the user and intended purpose. you can have the laser cross the line of sight of the optic, or maintain a parallel offset (which I think is easier to keep track of, because then you're only dealing with elevation and not both elevation and windage).

I agree. I cannot imagine any scenario where they would be used at the same time. Maybe zero the laser for a QCB distance like 20-30 feet where the point of aim being off a couple of inches make little difference. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I just don't see a visible laser being good for much other hip shooting in dim but not dark conditions. A laser doesn't aluminate a target.

[butlers]

As far as i know, no. It's meant as a primary laser, not a backup to another one.

Got it.

What I meant was: if you're not using both at the same time, the laser battery cap -- while the primary laser sighting system -- is merely secondary to the holographic weapon sight. In other words, the laser from the laser battery cap is a back-up.

If you are running both simultaneously, however -- well then, that goes to my question at the top (which you answered). Thank you for your insight.

It's one of those attempts to integrate two-into-one packages.

Got it.

[militarymoron]

What I meant was: if you're not using both at the same time, the laser battery cap -- while the primary laser sighting system -- is merely secondary to the holographic weapon sight. In other words, the laser from the laser battery cap is a back-up.

It can be, but visible lasers do have their niche uses and can be the primary aiming system in times when you may find it hard to sight through the primary optic properly (unless you have a high mount), like when wearing a gas mask etc.

[butlers]

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I just don't see a visible laser being good for much other hip shooting in dim but not dark conditions. A laser doesn't aluminate a target.

It can be, but visible lasers do have their niche uses and can be the primary aiming system in times when you may find it hard to sight through the primary optic properly (unless you have a high mount), like when wearing a gas mask etc.

I do think one under-rated aspect of a laser is the intimidation factor. There have been some real-world scenarios where a visible (not IR) laser served as a real deterrent:

Recently on the U.S. border with Mexico, a Border Patrol officer was caught with no backup while facing an angry mob of illegal aliens bent on crossing into the United States.

...

As the crowd came to within shouting distance, the officer warned them to stop, first in perfect unaccented Spanish, then English. He was answered by a torrent of rocks and bottles. With this escalation, the officer drew his Beretta 92FS and issued another warning. Regardless, the crowd continued its onslaught.

...

The officer''s supervisor answered the call for backup, and he, too, was greeted by a barrage of rocks. Now two officers were pointing firearms at the crowd. Only, one of the Berettas was very different. The supervisor''s weapon was equipped with a set of Crimson Trace Laser Grips. As he scanned the approaching crowd with his sights, he paused on one of the crowd, stopping the man dead in his tracks.

The young Mexican man looked at the tiny glowing ruby red dot on his chest, let out a yelp, jumped into the air, turned around, ran a zig-zag pattern back to the fence and disappeared under it. The same occurred with the next designee and the one after that. After illuminating the first few and receiving the desired results, the supervisor swept the beam across the remaining members of the crowd, and they beat a wholesale retreat back into Mexico.

A few days later at the processing center, one of the officers recognized one of the first illegals to bolt back when illuminated. Curious as to why the suspect did not respond when he was pointing his weapon at him and why he did respond when he saw the laser, the officer took him aside and questioned the man about his actions.

The illegal alien told him that early in the incident he had the comfort of the crowd. He never realized the officer''s gun was pointed directly at him, and it was only after he was singled out by that red dot, that it occurred to him he could die right there and right then. The sobering effect of being starkly confronted with the fact that, within a second or two, a bullet could enter his body right where that little dot was glowing brought his mortality into crystal clarity and overcame the crowd mentality.

https://www.policeone.com/police-pro...in-his-tracks/

[jpmuscle]

I do think one under-rated aspect of a laser is the intimidation factor. There have been some real-world scenarios where a visible (not IR) laser served as a real deterrent:

No. That’s retarded. Right up there with the sound of racking a shotgun.


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[ggammell]

anecdote

And that’s all it is.