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Thread: Army M4 Carbine Can Fire Even If You Don't Pull the Trigger

  1. #21
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    nevermind
    Last edited by Doc Glockster; 06-07-18 at 09:23.


    W.I. Thomas: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences".

  2. #22
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    This sounds to me to be eerily similar to the Remington 700 problems years ago. I'll make a point of asking Iraqgunz about this in a couple weeks when I take his class. Are these lowers ending up out of spec somehow?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Kastl View Post
    Would you agree that not getting the selector to a fully proper position, be it safe, semi, or auto, is operator error?
    Schitt happens and a good engineer designs with that in mind.

    When you pull the trigger, the gun should either fire or not, not "save it for later".

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloLarry View Post
    Schitt happens and a good engineer designs with that in mind.

    When you pull the trigger, the gun should either fire or not, not "save it for later".
    Agreed.

    How would people here feel if this happened when you pull the trigger when it's on SAFE, then when you click the selector to FIRE it gives you what you previously asked for?

    Because I'm pretty sure EVERYONE here has done that, whether they admit it or not.
    - Rhino

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHINOWSO View Post
    Agreed.

    How would people here feel if this happened when you pull the trigger when it's on SAFE, then when you click the selector to FIRE it gives you what you previously asked for?

    Because I'm pretty sure EVERYONE here has done that, whether they admit it or not.
    To me, that not the same. This only happens when in between positions. Usually the force it takes to overcome the detent causes the selector to "spring" forward. I would think for the selector to be between positions, something is wrong, or it was deliberately done. That being said, I have never flipped one from semi to full.

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloLarry View Post
    Schitt happens and a good engineer designs with that in mind.

    When you pull the trigger, the gun should either fire or not, not "save it for later".
    You, and everyone else, are completely correct. I see clearly the error of my original thoughts on this. I got hung up on the idea, possibly incorrectly, that this issue came to light when folks were deliberately putting the selector in an inappropriate position with a "hold my beer, watch this" mentality, and couldn't get past that.
    Last edited by Brett Kastl; 06-06-18 at 12:00.

  7. #27
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    So I read this article and the plethora of follow on write ups and come away with...

    1. Troop pulls the trigger when the selector is between semi and auto. Nothing happens.

    2. Troop then switched to semi or auto and gun discharges.

    3. This does not occur from safe to semi (or in between).

    4. Eight to ten percent of tested rifles are affected indicating tolerance/maintenance issue versus the mythical "design flaw," no?

    5. Once this hit the interwebs and the seeds of panic were sown....well, everyone in my agency has tested their semi-only rifles. 0% malfunctioned from safe to semi. Tested my two personal rifles. Same thing.

    Definitely something to address but not the doomsday scenario pushed initially by some writers. Is there an additional PMCS step after this initial pass/fail or is a pass at this stage GTG?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
    So I read this article and the plethora of follow on write ups and come away with...

    1. Troop pulls the trigger when the selector is between semi and auto. Nothing happens.

    2. Troop then switched to semi or auto and gun discharges.

    3. This does not occur from safe to semi (or in between).

    4. Eight to ten percent of tested rifles are affected indicating tolerance/maintenance issue versus the mythical "design flaw," no?

    5. Once this hit the interwebs and the seeds of panic were sown....well, everyone in my agency has tested their semi-only rifles. 0% malfunctioned from safe to semi. Tested my two personal rifles. Same thing.

    Definitely something to address but not the doomsday scenario pushed initially by some writers. Is there an additional PMCS step after this initial pass/fail or is a pass at this stage GTG?
    As far as I know, just follow the new function test, plus new adjusted Immediate Action Drill. If you haven't, scroll down the the following link.

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...-m4s-and-m16s/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
    Is there an additional PMCS step after this initial pass/fail or is a pass at this stage GTG?
    You’re talking about semi only rifles?


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Kastl View Post
    Deliberately moving the selector off safe and deliberately pulling the trigger is an unintended discharge?

    Would you agree that not getting the selector to a fully proper position, be it safe, semi, or auto, is operator error?

    Again, if the selector is not moving &/or operating as it should, that is a malfunction, but that's not the what I'm reading in the articles.
    Wasn't it not firing when between positions when the trigger was pulled but then when the selector was on semi or auto, it fired without pulling the trigger---or do I have this wrong? If it fires without pulling the trigger this sounds like a broken selector AT LEAST. My AR won't do this.

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