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Thread: Moving Away From The Slim 9mm Fad

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Perpetually on safari
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    I'm actually lusting after a Kimber Micro 9 right now. I know it's not a Glock but I'm reading some pretty glowing reviews on it right now.

    W.I. Thomas: "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences".

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by butlers View Post
    There's a concept in law called the "calculus of negligence".

    Burden = Probability x Severity

    So, if I leave a car parked on a steep hill without engaging the emergency brake, and it rolls away and hits a pedestrian, the courts will use this equation to determine my level of negligence. If the burden (of engaging the parking brake) is less than the product of probability (of the car rolling downhill) times the severity (of harm caused if the runaway car hits someone), then I violated a "duty of care"; I'm negligent.

    If you think about it, we sorta do this intuitively in everyday life. Why don't we wear a flak jacket and kevlar when we're out getting groceries with our family? Because in this case, the burden of wearing body armor (pretty darn annoying/high) is greater than the probability we will get into an actual firefight (very very very small) x severity of harm if we don't have our body armor on (true, it would suck to get shot without it). There's a fine line between preparedness and outright paranoia.

    In contrast, why do we wear seat belts? The burden of buckling up (very low) is far less than the probability we will get into a car accident (very small) x severity of harm if we don't wear our seatbelts (high).


    So we get to concealed carry. Why don't most of us carry around full-sized semi-automatic service weapons (e.g. Glock 17, Sig 226) OWB with a cover garment, with two extra 17-round magazines on our weakside and a small BUG in an ankle holster? Because the burden is slightly too big (even for those who CCW), and thus burden > probability x severity.

    In contrast, a small single stack 9mm tips the scale in the other direction. A weapon like this makes most of us forget we're even carrying, so the burden < probability x severity.

    Life is all about balancing choices against one another. (Heck, sometimes I want to go to the range and gently remind some of these fatter shooters that they're far far far more likely to die of eating cheeseburgers [i.e. heart attack] than eating bullets [i.e. gun battle], so maybe less time shooting, and more time exercising?) Given my lifestyle (suburban dad), it's extremely unlikely that I'll need a gun, let alone actually fire it. And even if I do fire it, it's also unlikely I'll need more than four rounds:

    Thus, since the burden of CCWing a single stack isn't too bad, I'll carry. It seems unproductive to go down the rabbit hole of statistically improbable scenarios like a shootout with multiple attackers that necessitate a large capacity pistol. At least for me, the burden outweighs the probability x severity.

    Your equation may look different, of course (depends on your lifestyle, your environment, your comfort with risk, etc).
    Ha. Great post!

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedWillis View Post
    I bought a G43 a few months ago, again, because I wanted that small 9mm. Whether it be for Summer carry, or throwing it in a pocket to run to the gas station or Wal Mart, it works great for that. However, I can't shoot the thing nearly well enough to be strapping it on, and carrying it anywhere. I get that I need more time on it to get my proficiency and confidence up, but, that point may never come.

    After my last handgun class, I took some time and I really evaluated what I need my carry gun to do. What I came up with personally is;

    I need to be confident and well versed on the gun.
    I need to be able to manipulate and shoot strong, or weak handed one handed.
    I need to be able to make rapid and consistent hits out to 25 yards.
    I need to be able to carry at work with it, and not have it be completely noticeable.
    I need to be able to carry a spare mag that holds more than the flush base plate I carry in it.
    It needs to hold at least 10+1 in a flush fit, or small lip over the end of the grip

    So after these thoughts, and identifying my own personal needs, I settled on my Glock 26 for majority carry, Glock 19 when I can dress around it. They are nearly identical in how they function. I can shoot both roughly the same (At range the G26 is much more difficult) and I am confident shooting it at any distance I would need to engage while at my job.

    I am well versed and confident with it
    I can shoot it well right or left handed
    I can make quality hits out to 25 yards with it.
    I can carry at work and not have it print like mad. (I can't appendix carry, so I am a 3'oclock guy)
    I carry a G17 sp.are.
    I carry a flush Glock 10+1 mag, or a Magpul 12+1 mag that I have had excellent luck with so far

    Every single person is different, and their needs are also. I was forced to really do a gut check on my EDC and what I can and can't do with it because of a recent disgruntled ex-employee at my place of work.

    I think everyone needs to dig down, and find out what they need their gun and carry setup to be, and stick with it. YMMV. Sorry for the long post.
    The G26/19 combo checks every box for me as well. Still have a 43 for the reasons you mentioned and because I can wear it iwb in my hospital scrubs or belly band if I have to (I work in an inner city hospital in a shitty neighborhood and have to park several blocks away and walk in.)

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Bland, Va
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    You're right my trendy Shield in the 8+1 flavor won't get the job done, so I'm heading back to my 5+0 642. Or maybe my silly kids toy 6+1 LCP...

    I carry my Shield or LCP for comfort, anything bigger is a range toy or HD.
    The Jeep is Family

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHINOWSO View Post
    Carry a G19 and a G17 mag as a reload.

    If you can't do it with that, it wasn't your day anyway.

    Good Luck.
    I do the same most days. It really is a great setup for portability and capacity.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    E. Tennessee
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    4 (100%)
    My dad got one last year for a smoking deal. I got to shoot it in December and I was quite surprised how well it shot and handled. He is up to about 1000 rounds through it with no issues yet. I have been pleasantly surprised as has he.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    I'm actually lusting after a Kimber Micro 9 right now. I know it's not a Glock but I'm reading some pretty glowing reviews on it right now.
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
    CVN-65, USS Enterprise

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Midwest, USA
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    1 (100%)
    In my world, small compact and subcompact pistols in 9mm are the leading EDC by regular folks and off-work carry by armed professionals. Of those, the G43 is the runaway favorite, followed Walthers, SW Shield, Springfield XDs, and all others thereafter. Of all others, there are quite a few LCRs and J-frames. There are only 3-5 of the 365s. The G43s and revolvers can be counted on to be 100% reliable through a range evolution regardless of ammo used. The Walthers and XDs do very well. Everything else benefits from a watchful eye. The single action variants are not recommended. Calibers other than 9mm (or 38) are not recommended.

    To borrow from Tom Givens, regardless of make/model these are all "1-2 bad guy guns" by capacity. However, they're all more than adequate for the bell curve of events. Read up on the work of Tactical Professor Claude Werner to learn what is actually used, by whom, and in what circumstances. Example today: https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....8/#more-156521

    These small guns are no fad, they are the future of armed citizenry. In a perfect world, everyone would run around with full size or compact service-quality fighting pistols with reloads and other EDC gear. In reality, these are all most will ever consider.

    There are tips and tricks to using them effectively. You can teach and shoot them like service pistols, but instruction in small-gun specific techniques is useful. Most folks simply try to wedge full size methods onto smaller receivers.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    SE North Carolina
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    I have a Walther pps m1 and like it. Yet over time of using it for concealed carry, the pps dimensions height and length is about the same as my Glock 26. The pps is thinner than the g26. Yet the g26 is not so thick it cannot be used in similar carry method as the pps.
    So as I have night sites on the Glock 26 and the double stack mag are 10 for the 26 and 15 for the g19.
    I am back to the Glock double stack.
    I still like the Walther pps and do not think the single stack is a fad.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    ......There are tips and tricks to using them effectively. You can teach and shoot them like service pistols, but instruction in small-gun specific techniques is useful. Most folks simply try to wedge full size methods onto smaller receivers.
    Would very much like to hear you expand on what these techniques are, here or in a separate thread.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    In a perfect world I’d be cruising around the mall with my BCM with the NX8 and the lightweight 1911 carried concealed would be the backup.

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