Army looking at 10 Commercial Sub guns...

**FromMyColdDeadHand** · 06-15-18, 01:48

Is it that the MP5 was the best of class when the sub-gun went out of favor and new ones weren't a priority for big contracts?

**docsherm** · 06-15-18, 09:39

Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn

All of which is great, but none of the alternatives mentioned are in 9mm. And if I'm, "stuck," with a 9mm subgun or PCC, I can't think of a whole lot of them I'd rather have than an MP5.

The main issue is that the people that are more than likely to get this will not be trigger pullers...... If it has to me a 9MM then the Colt is really the only logical choice. The same basic system of operation. Let's be real, most of those that would get it would not even be able to figure out how to cock a MP5.

**sundance435** · 06-15-18, 10:10

Wouldn't a Glock 18 with a FAB stock work just as well as any of these? Off that list, the B&T is the only one that makes any sense for an ultra-concealable SMG. Hell, might as well go with a Mac-10. That being said, I'd love to have a Beretta PMX.

**Moose-Knuckle** · 06-15-18, 11:41

Originally Posted by sundance435

Wouldn't a Glock 18 with a FAB stock work just as well as any of these? Off that list, the B&T is the only one that makes any sense for an ultra-concealable SMG. Hell, might as well go with a Mac-10. That being said, I'd love to have a Beretta PMX.

Beretta 93R's are 5x5.

**26 Inf** · 06-15-18, 11:45

Originally Posted by docsherm

The main issue is that the people that are more than likely to get this will not be trigger pullers...... If it has to me a 9MM then the Colt is really the only logical choice. The same basic system of operation. Let's be real, most of those that would get it would not even be able to figure out how to cock a MP5.

You have a better handle on Military PSD's for high value personnel, but I would ass-u-me they do get some training, correct?

Running an MP5 effectively is not rocket science.

Additionally, the requirement is for improved concealment potential over the rifle. AFAIC the Colt SMG doesn't fit that niche at all.

"Currently, Personal Security Detail (PSD) military personnel utilize pistols and rifles; however, there is an operational need for additional concealability and lethality," the notice states. "Failure to provide the selected SCW for assessment and evaluation will leave PSD military personnel with a capability gap which can result in increased warfighter casualties and jeopardize the success of the U.S. mission."

**Moose-Knuckle** · 06-15-18, 12:01

"Currently, Personal Security Detail (PSD) military personnel utilize pistols and rifles; however, there is an operational need for additional concealability and lethality," the notice states. "Failure to provide the selected SCW for assessment and evaluation will leave PSD military personnel with a capability gap which can result in increased warfighter casualties and jeopardize the success of the U.S. mission."

**FromMyColdDeadHand** · 06-15-18, 15:39

"Currently, Personal Security Detail (PSD) military personnel utilize pistols and rifles; however, there is an operational need for additional concealability and lethality,"

against people not wearing a minimum of body armor.

**SteyrAUG** · 06-15-18, 16:19

Originally Posted by sundance435

Wouldn't a Glock 18 with a FAB stock work just as well as any of these? Off that list, the B&T is the only one that makes any sense for an ultra-concealable SMG. Hell, might as well go with a Mac-10. That being said, I'd love to have a Beretta PMX.

Would depend how important first shot placement is, which is why the Uzi was king of the SMGs until the MP5. But currently, given how small the 5.56 package has become, the only reason I can think of to run SMGs (particularly the MP5) would be for greater suppression and I can't think of much else besides "ninja sneak and creep" ops and then I'd still want half the crew running Colt Commandos just in case "sneak in/sneak out/nobody knows we were even there" falls apart.

So SMGs are now more special use than sniper rifles. Other than that the only use I can think of is stuff like MPs and those who have to pull security around things that don't react particularly well to gunfire since 9mm will probably do less damage to your super secret spy plane than 5.56.

Seems like all the ninja seal guys have this figured out and are currently running the best gear for the job in the form of 416s or Mk18s or whatever the current compact AR platform is these days and are only gonna draw SMGs for very specific applications.

So if you are running around 16 Princess Gate zapping hostage takers who are definitely not wearing body armor then the MP5 is an excellent tool for that job, but if you are playing in Mosul or worse, some mountain in Asscrackistan, then a SMG is probably the last thing you want.