Delete. Thanks
Delete. Thanks
Last edited by lsllc; 02-15-19 at 06:22.
Islic, been thinking about this; if the pictured kaboom was indeed with (documented) factory ammo from a reputable manufacturer (Fiocchi certainly qualifies), then there is something left unstated by your buddy.
Due respect to all, but gunmakers are spooky enough about their reps (and possible litigation); I'm having a hard time believing that Sig is simply stonewalling him in the matter. Did they even want the gun back for a looksee? How did the notion of a double charge even arise if he was using factory fodder?
Moon
Last edited by halfmoonclip; 02-14-19 at 23:17.
I’m not sure what is left unstated? I didn’t specifically ask him what ammo was fired out of the pistol, but I know he doesn’t reload and typically Fiocchi is what he typically shoots.
What he said was that he called Sig, stated he believed it fired out of battery, the Sig rep got defensive and stated that it was impossible with the P365 design, and that it was likely a double charge. He sent the same photos to Sig as he sent me, and they told him “double charge”. The rep told him the repairs were to be out of pocket. I think he was mailing it out Monday of this past week.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If it truly was a double charge, he should take it up with the ammo manufacturer he was using. Somebody is at fault and it wasn't him. The ammo manufacturer will be able to tell what happened and know if it was a double or if it was fired out of battery. Once that is established, whoever is at fault will have to make it right.
Not necessarily. In my former career it was my experience that anytime there was a catastrophic failure of a firearm, the manufacturer generally blamed the ammo, until inspection. We had a failure with a Sig years ago, and it was determined to be ammo related after the gun was examined. There is no way to determine the cause from pictures alone. Sig was a very different company back them, and a pleasure to deal with. I would expect nothing less than the response Islic mentioned from them today.
The notion of a double charge in factory ammunition is not out of the realm of possibility. Although rare (from reputable companies) they happen. I have seen overcharged, squibs, and improperly assembled ammunition from various makers.
Is LLC, if I were your friend, I'd be damned if I would accept that response from Sig, especially with the issues they have had of late. I'd send it to an independent testing lab, and once the cause was determined, I would seek restitution from whomever was responsible. Sig or the ammo company.
Most of the factory ammunition I’ve disassembled were incapable of double-charges due to powder selection, however that doesn’t mean they cannot be over-charged.
I don’t know that he would pay an independent lab to make such a determination as it would be on his dime. He can buy the pistol new, as a FFL-holder, cheaper than the cost of the lab. I’m sure Sig understands that as well.
My guess is Sig will charge him for repairs at a cost lower than a full gun and he’ll move on. If I see him after a response, I will update the forum.
I do believe it to have been out of battery as I’ve seen the P365’s big brother fire out of battery, though with less damage to the firearm. I’ve also tested mine to see if it were capable of firing unlocked and it is. I would test a P365 with the old pencil test, if I had access to one. When I played with his I could hold it out of battery and the striker would drop. I’m uncertain if it would strike a primer, however.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Okay, cleared the P365 and went looking for a pencil. Old fashioned wooden pencils aren't half so common as they once were. With the gun fully in battery, the pencil was give an good rap. With it withdrawn just a tiny fraction, the pencil still got a slight bump, but far less than before. Drawn back another fraction, and the striker wouldn't click at all. From this entirely unscientific experiment (and assuming the OPs gun was in proper spec), it seems unlikely that it would fire out of battery. My lone misfire left only a slight mark on the primer, and it is my belief that it was out of battery.
For the OP's buddy, he has no really good alternatives. He's not been hurt, so it's unlikely an ambulance chaser will take the case for a cut.
He's best served by most convincingly (and maybe a little humbly) making his case to Sig, involve Fiocchi (does he still have the remainder of the box and lot number?), and see what happens. What's right and what you can reasonably get ain't the same thing.
Moon
Try it with a primed case instead of a pencil.
“It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” Mark Twain
The press is currently set for .45s (and large primers) so that isn't going to happen anytime soon.
In any case, between the pencil and the previous misfire, I'm convinced that an OOB is unlikely. That isn't saying your buddy's gun wasn't out of spec.
Keep in mind that the rear of the barrel drops quickly as the slide is drawn back; no only will the striker's blow be cushioned, but it will also be out of alignment. That was the case with the FP mark on my round that didn't fire.
Again, is Sig paying for shipment back to NH?
Moon
Last edited by Texaspoff; 02-19-19 at 14:11.
Cerified Glock Armorer
Certified P320 Armorer
Certified M&P LE Armorer
NRA/LE Firearms Instructor
ColdBoreCustom.com
Bookmarks