not sure if this was mentioned, there was a pretty hefty prize for the top shooter in the class.
an M&P pistol of all things!
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Senior Member
not sure if this was mentioned, there was a pretty hefty prize for the top shooter in the class.
an M&P pistol of all things!
Doing my part to keep malls safe
Member
Sorry I couldn't be there for this one. An Arlington/DC trip got in the way for TD 1. Then if that wasn't bad enough a phone call from the command staff while I was away kept me away from TD 2 & 3. I'm just glad that two of us coordinated the class so there was a backup.
Kyle is a class act and I'm glad everyone enjoyed themselves and took away a lot from this training.
I hope to see some of you in July in the Street Fighter class.
Disclaimer; sent from my crackberry cause the laptop died.
Member
AAR Viking Tactics Carbine 1.5 18-20 APR 2008 Linden, NC
Preface
This is based on what I observed at the class. I organized it for Kyle but did not
shoot it. Having taken it twice already and there being 17 students, I thought it
best to sit this one out.
Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics conducted his three day Carbine 1.5 class 18-20
April 2009 at a private range in Linden, NC.
Kyle is a former member of US Army Special Operations with extensive real world
experience. His insight into what works and what doesn't when it comes to fighting
with a carbine is invaluable. Assisting Kyle was Dan Brokos. Dan also has a Special
Operations background and is the co-star in the Viking Tactics videos on YouTube.
There were 17 people in the class with the usual mix of military, law enforcement
and civilians. They came from as far away as Connecticut, Louisiana, and Texas.
A couple of guys just returned from the Middle East. We also had a representative
from Smith & Wesson putting his M&P15VTAC rifle to the test, quite well I may add
(Does the shameless plug get me that rifle Matt?).
Day 1
Kyle started with an quick introduction and safety briefing, then right into a
discussion on ballistics, zeroing, and basic marksmanship. Zeros were checked
and rechecked at different distances. A series of drills were run from 100yds
and in, using prone, seated, kneeling and standing positions. These reinforced
the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. Moving closer in, we worked on
controlled pairs, failure drills, and multiple targets. You can see examples of
a few drills used to help reinforce the key learning points:
Half & Half Drill
2x2x2 Drill
DAY 2
A good bit of time was spent going over malfunctions, ensuring we understood
how the specific problems occur and the steps Kyle uses to clear them. He threw
in a good exercise where you ran from around the 30yd line to the 5 where
three weapons with malfunctions were waiting. You had to clear and fire two
shots from each one. More close in work was done, hammering home the
importance of getting your eyes on the next target and driving the weapon
aggressively. After covering forward and lateral movement, we did a few
drills that combined several of the teaching points covered during the first
two days. Here is one example:
Zig Zag Drill
DAY 3
Transitioning from strong side to support side and the use of different shooting
positions started off the day. Several unusual positions were demonstrated then
we were given time to get comfortable with them. The positions presented may
have seemed odd at first but Kyle gave real world applications where they could
be useful. The barricade portion of the class provided the opportunity to use these
odd positions to engage targets at 100 yards. This was not just get behind the
barricade and shoot, physical exertion was thrown in to make it a greater challenge.
The point of the transitions and positions: one must be comfortable shooting strong
and support side from different positions because you are not always going to
be presented with the perfect situation. The final drill incorporated a lot of what was
taught during the past three days:
Highsmith Drill
Kyle's teaching style is pretty laid back. He presents the material clearly and
throws in examples where it could be applicable or where he actually used it.
He challenges you to push yourself, always emphasizing accuracy and speed.
That push results in the improvements I saw in the students by day three.
Guns/Ammo
The VTAC rifle/upper was well represented. There were a few versions: JP,
Noveske, and Smith & Wesson.
Two guys were running S&W 5.45 uppers with C Products mags. They didn't
have any issues. Something to think about considering the price/availability
of 5.56 ammo these days.
There was one piston gun, LWRC 10.5". Shooter was using Wolf ammo. There
were two incidents where cases failed to extract. Inspection of the case showed
the extractor had ripped off a piece of the rim.
There was a frankengun that had two slam fires. It was retired on day one.
Hint - Do not bring frankenguns to classes.
NOTE: Several shooters were running Wolf ammo with no problems at all.
There were two gun writers in the class. Look for articles on the VTAC Carbine 1.5
class and the S&W M&P15VTAC rifle in Guns and Ammo and SWAT magazines in
the future.
The VTAC Carbine 1.5 class begins with a few drills reinforcing marksmanship
fundamentals then quickly ramps up, pushing you beyond your comfort zone
by having you apply the basics under stress. The challenge of shooting at
various distances while moving and from different positions behind cover
makes it a well rounded course for any experienced shooter who wants to get
to the next level.
You can get the book and you can can watch the drills but there is no substitute
for the real thing. I highly recommend taking the class if you have the opportunity.
Senior Member
Until someone proves otherwise, I still think that you and Jack are one and the same!!Originally Posted by JFreuler
We must not believe the Evil One when he tells us that there is nothing we can do in the face of violence, injustice and sin. - Pope Francis I
Industry Professional
Until someone proves otherwise, I still think that you and Jack are one and the same!!
Jack and Jeff are two very different people. JAck pays for all of his range toys and Jeff has the state buy his
- - - - - - - - -
Thanks for the AAR's - sounds like good training.
Member
Well here is my two cents worth. The class was great, the pace was quicker than anything I have done before. I learned that I need major work on lateral movement as I am a total clutz. And that I have a real big probelm shooting support side while using my strong side eye to aim.This is not something I was aware of or something I could fix durring the class. This is will take a lot of time to correct I expect. The class reinforced that once I am flustered, my meger skills drop at a rapid rate. And that being dyslexic sucks, booo hooo. But I learned a ton of stuff, was driven well outside the comfort of prioir drills and classes. The drills were fun, mind bending and kick ass
Jack was a great host, Kyle was a great instructor and has matrix like skills with the Carbine. Dan was alot of help down on my end of the line and spent a fair amount of time squaring me away.
I will take this class again asap.
Regards
Matt Renz
NOVA 545 x 39 proponent
PS: I can almost walk normaly now, and my Knee doc is ordering a new Benz
Member
Come on Matt, I easily had the award for the ugliest shooting on the move. I can't wait to video myself to see what you all were laughing about!
My 2 cents from the class.
Kyle is a solid and charismatic instructor. Part of being an instructor is knowing how to keep everyone engaged. Kyle's course has great flow and even if you were waiting (waiting is defined as around 45 seconds) to shoot you were learning. Big thanks to everyone in the first line for letting us on the second get a little edutainment at your expense. Kyle's AI "Talkative Dan" was also very helpful, a great help to Matt and I with the shooting down low from the brokeback and more.
The students were solid. A lot of hard shootin mofos in this class. Some that I knew from prior classes and some that I am glad to have met. The group got along well and was pretty tight by the end of 3 days. Great group of guys to train with and I am glad I got the opportunity. This is a great class for someone who's been to a basic carbine 2 or 3 day and wants to get out of their comfort zone. It will definitely give a selection of new tools for the tool box.
The drills? Pay up bitches, the man doesn't give this knowledge away for free. Suffice it to say I made shots I would not have thought possible from positions I know aren't supposed to be possible. Some of the drills they have posted on youtube others you'll need to attend to get. Definitely adding things to my shooting plan.
Some observations;
Aimpoints are great, Eotechs may be better for shooting from awkward positions. I ran a Noveske N4 with a T1 for 2.5 days. It worked well and I've shot a lot with that combo. I put the Eotech on my BCM middie upper/ LMT lower at lunch on day 3. A lot faster for me to get a sight picture from ground level to about 9 inches off the ground. How much faster? By my estimate about a year. Seriously, I don't know but I noticed it.
Running the stock all the way out is a good thing. I used to run my Vltors two clicks out. I switched to all the way out following a lunch conversation between my shooting buddy and Kyle. The dot in the Aimpoint seemed to go static after that. A lot less movement of the whole weapon. I did this with both the carbine and the middie with positive results.
Wolf Ammo runs great out of true 5.56 chambered guns. I ran 1300 rounds of Wolf during this course with no issues. I ran north of 1100 at a Pat Rogers class two weekends ago with no issues. All but 300 or so were out of the N4. The BCM has had no issues with the 500 or so it's digested. My shooting buddy also ran about 1000 rounds of Wolf through his BCM upper at this class. Silver Bear also ran well in another gun (I believe Grant built the upper but don't know the particulars).
Shooting on the move needs to be practiced a lot. I don't practice shooting on the move other than at classes and it shows. Gonna add that to the routine.
Well it appears I've given a dollar's worth. This class is very good and deserves all the good press it gets.
Big thanks to Jeff (missed you brother) and Jack (good to see you again) for doing all the work to get this done. Big thanks to Kyle and Dan for the training. Big thanks to Melynda for the great grub and for allowing us to run unfettered through her warehouse.
To all who attended the "f yo couch Kyle Lamb" class, it was a pleasure to meet ya and I look forward to seeing you all in the future.
Spence
Last edited by vaspence; 04-22-09 at 22:44.
Member
Kyle workin' the barricade.
Member
Note the lack of absence of reported EOTech failures among the several that ran them. I used my 512 on TD1 and TD2, and my Aimpoint T-1 on TD3. Both have their advantages. Use what you like, and like what you use.
I will say that when I took the 512 off, it felt like the world had been lifted from Atlas' shoulders.
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