What is the point of the .357 Sig?

[7.62NATO]

I understand that the 357 Sig 'approaches' the ballistics of the venerable .357 Magnum, yet isn't it just a 9 mm +P+? Anyone carry this caliber and shoot it regularly? I know several fed/state agancies issue 357 Sig cal. handguns, what is it they find charming in the 357 Sig?

[SingleStacker45]

I think there are some agencies that realize the penetration advantages of a faster moving 9mm bullet. I recently found a video showing a 357 sig round penetrating a soft armor. Makes you think. If you have time to watch it's interesting to see how the armor reacts to various rounds. The .357 is later in the video.

Mule

http://www.safarilandarmorwear.com/i...tail&section=6

[Code3Patriot]

My Sheriff's Office (1,100 sworn) issues the P226R/P229R in .357SIG. Those are our only two options for on duty unless we're in a special assignment, and even then the gun (usually a P239) has to be chambered in .357SIG.

My SO is in a urban, high crime area and unfortunately officer involved shootings are common. I've been on for 6 years and in that time we've had five shootings if my cop math is correct. All but one of those shootings were fatal for the bad guy(s), and that one was a hip shot off a motorcycle from 20 yards or so. Another one of the shootings was fatal for two people.

Our department likes the round becuase, it has proven itself in the field, it tends to be very accurate (depending on the shooter), it expands fantastically in the human chest cavity, and it punched right through a windshield when it needed to to save a deputy's life.

We use the Speer Gold Dot 125gr.

[ra2bach]

I consider the round to be the 9MM Magnum. maybe faster than some of the +P+ rounds, slower than the .357Magnum, depending on the individual gun and barrel length they are fired in, but I like it because the case and guns it is fired in are DESIGNED for the higher pressures of the round.

while a lot of the 9MM guns are approved for +P rounds, there is no SAAMI spec for +P+. take that for what it's worth...

[Alaskapopo]

I consider the round to be the 9MM Magnum. maybe faster than some of the +P+ rounds, slower than the .357Magnum, depending on the individual gun and barrel length they are fired in, but I like it because the case and guns it is fired in are DESIGNED for the higher pressures of the round.

while a lot of the 9MM guns are approved for +P rounds, there is no SAAMI spec for +P+. take that for what it's worth...

Actually most 357 sigs are simply 9mm's with an enlarged breach face and a different barrel and magazine. A 9mm that is fed a steady diet of +p+ ammo will last longer than a 357 sig fed a steady diet of full power 357 sig ammo.
Pat

[sigmundsauer]

Actually most 357 sigs are simply 9mm's with an enlarged breach face and a different barrel and magazine. A 9mm that is fed a steady diet of +p+ ammo will last longer than a 357 sig fed a steady diet of full power 357 sig ammo.
Pat

And how do you account for the substantially beefed up slide mass on .357 SIG pistols that is usually built for heavy .40 bullets?....and the stiffer recoil spring rates? .357 SIG is meant to be shot in the pistols in which it is chambered. 9mm +P+ almost always results in measurably higher slide velocity that what the pistol was designed for. Your statement makes little sense.

Any .357 SIG loading can achieve 9mm +P+ velocities with equivalent bullet weights at a LOWER pressure....add that to increased slide mass and stiffer recoil springs and it will almost certainly outlast a 9mm, period. Glocks may be an exception as there is little difference in slide mass and spring rates between the two....and thus don't last as long in .40/.357 SIG.

Tim

[ra2bach]

Actually most 357 sigs are simply 9mm's with an enlarged breach face and a different barrel and magazine. A 9mm that is fed a steady diet of +p+ ammo will last longer than a 357 sig fed a steady diet of full power 357 sig ammo.
Pat

sorry. that's not correct.

well... actually it might be in the case of Glocks. of course, the Glock is a better pistol in 9MM, in which it was designed, than the .40S&W, which was rushed into production by doing what you say.

in pistols designed for the higher pressures of the .40 and 357SIG, that would not be true.

[maximus83]

7.62Nato, as hatt says, .357 Sig is actually capable of even "hotter" loadings than any 9mm+P or +P+. This is alleged to make it capable of greater penetration, and in my understanding, the greater penetration is usually the main motive for using .357 Sig.

If you check a lot of the commercial loadings available, you find that the hottest-loaded self-defense ammunition in .357 Sig does indeed, on paper, appear to outperform even the best 9mm +P or +P+ loads. For example, go to a company like DoubleTap Ammo (www.doubletapammo.com), and compare their 115gr HP loadings in 9mm +P, and the 115gr HP in .357 Sig. The .357 Sig has significantly higher velocity and energy at the muzzle and at 50 yards.

But that is not the whole story, obviously there's more to ballistics than just velocity and energy. DocGkr and his crew have done some research on the .357 Sig, and this is posted at TacticalForums in the "Terminal Effects" section. Here's a link to a thread that provides a whole bunch of links to detailed discussions of the .357 Sig, the testing that has been done with it, and some assessments of its effectiveness:

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...;f=78;t=001658

[ST911]

The 357SIG/Auto does what most everything else does, at a higher price point, with greater maintenance issues, and diminished shooter performance.

Like most other calibers, there's little compelling argument for it.

[sigmundsauer]

.357 SIG simply attempts to mimic .357 Mag ballistics from a short barreled revolver in a more manageable, and higher fire power pistol. Basically, if you think a 125 grain bullet using a decent JHP driven fast is good, then driving it faster is better. All ballistics is based on this premise, assuming the bullet is properly engineered for the targeted velocity. There is no doubt that .357 SIG is better than virtually every 9mm loading available and is far better suited for continuous use in such chambered pistols.

Tim