Army picks SIG to produce Next Generation Squad Weapon

[screechjet]

Yeah, I heard the same scary story. Did you ever see any estimate on what percentage of enemy troops are using the armor? Or a comparison of what 855A1 does to it? I never saw either. I haven't heard anything about UKR troops not being able to defeat RUS armor at the individual level.

I'd tend agree, the need for individual soldier lethality has been overcome by events to need more lethal and passive protection from sensors (Protection is weight) and indirect fire and sensor capability (new weapons are weight.)

Was the intelligence assessment reasonable 10+ years ago when the initial idea of armor globally outpacing our weapons was real, and the idea of "Increase individual soldier lethality" became these weapons and rounds? I think it was reasonable, but I also thought at the time and still do that their might be better ways to get there. There was lots of experimentation that was driving the analysis however. It wasn't entirely a justification exercise. The data was both the Chinese and Russians were within ten years be able to field weapons and armor that put our troops at disadvantage. Guess what, it wasn't just ground combat weapons, but families of missiles, improved armor, drones, EW etc. that both countries were R&Ding and trying to field.

However, one thing to keep in mind is the power of Branch within the Army to push ideas and concepts that benefit the Branch potentially at the risk of other ground combat priorities. The various branches have LOTS of power in the institutional Army.

[Echo40]

I find it strange that people still insist that Russia is a legitimate threat to the US, packing state-of-the-art body armor, when if anything the War in Ukraine has shown them to have in incredibly weak, poorly outfitted, incompetent military.

Honestly, they can't even successfully take over a smaller, weaker, less capable nation, and I find it hard to believe that they're fielding some incredible new body armor capable of stopping M855A1 when they're facing an army that doesn't even have ammunition that good at defeating body armor.

So unless they're really holding back against Ukraine and are deliberately trying to trick NATO forces into underestimating them by feigning weakness, they're not a threat at all. If you want to say that China has some advanced body armor in the works, then that I can believe, but Russia? Based on what, I might ask?

[Wake27]

I find it strange that people still insist that Russia is a legitimate threat to the US, packing state-of-the-art body armor, when if anything the War in Ukraine has shown them to have in incredibly weak, poorly outfitted, incompetent military.

Honestly, they can't even successfully take over a smaller, weaker, less capable nation, and I find it hard to believe that they're fielding some incredible new body armor capable of stopping M855A1 when they're facing an army that doesn't even have ammunition that good at defeating body armor.

So unless they're really holding back against Ukraine and are deliberately trying to trick NATO forces into underestimating them by feigning weakness, they're not a threat at all. If you want to say that China has some advanced body armor in the works, then that I can believe, but Russia? Based on what, I might ask?

This is a dangerous line of thought. Sure, it hasn’t been impressive, but Russia has had tremendous stamina for hundreds of years. They may not be as powerful as we’ve feared, but there’s an argument that they’re just getting started. Plus, they haven’t just been fighting UKR.


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[SteyrAUG]

This is a dangerous line of thought. Sure, it hasn’t been impressive, but Russia has had tremendous stamina for hundreds of years. They may not be as powerful as we’ve feared, but there’s an argument that they’re just getting started. Plus, they haven’t just been fighting UKR.


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Would only add that Putin is going out of his way to not appear the oppressor as much as possible. And it is one thing to mess with his grand plan, but if you threaten his political security it would probably get ugly fast. Russia has a capable AF that they don't seem to be using. Russia has a capable navy that they don't seem to be using. It doesn't look like he's unleashed special forces units, his SOP is to outsource this shit as much as possible so he can claim it isn't him doing it. We should also remember he's has slightly more nuclear weapons than anyone according to last estimates.

[Wake27]

Would only add that Putin is going out of his way to not appear the oppressor as much as possible. And it is one thing to mess with his grand plan, but if you threaten his political security it would probably get ugly fast. Russia has a capable AF that they don't seem to be using. Russia has a capable navy that they don't seem to be using. It doesn't look like he's unleashed special forces units, his SOP is to outsource this shit as much as possible so he can claim it isn't him doing it. We should also remember he's has slightly more nuclear weapons than anyone according to last estimates.

Yeah I'd agree with a lot of that.

From https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting...D-20240313.pdf:

For examples about how conflict drives adaptation, consider that the lifecycle of a radio in Ukraine is only about 3 months before it needs to be reprogrammed or swapped out as the Russians optimize their electronic warfare against it. The peak efficiency of a new weapon system is only about 2 weeks before countermeasures emerge. As another example of superior weapons systems handicapped by lack of software adaptability, consider that Excalibur precision artillery rounds initially had a 70% efficiency rate hitting targets when first used in Ukraine. However, after 6 weeks, efficiency declined to only 6% as the Russians adapted their electronic warfare systems to counter it.