Well, that's his opinion...I disagree..I've got a HK USP 9mm and a M&P45 and I'm having trouble with the M&P..I had the sights changed by Grant to some Heinie straight 8's and I'm having a hard time hitting anything beyond about 15yds,(IMO this should be no problem with a .45 at this range)I've been shooting at pop cans, and once past about 15yds, hitting them is iffy. I've been using my loads which work very well in my Kimber, S.A. Milspec, Sig P-220, in the M&P I'm shooting low...I'm kinda dissapointed with it. I'm not sure if it's the sights or me or the M&P, Recoil is harsh as well,(load is 4.2gr titegroup, with a 200gr LSWC, OAL 1.250.and some 230gr LRN's with another load I can't recall right off the top of my head..) At this point I'm not very happy with it, and If I can't get it to shoot to point of aim beyond 15yds, it's going down the road like my XD45 did, and this will be another pistol I'll cross off and put on my don't buy list....it's not living up to the hype...At least my USP shoots well beyond 15yds, and usually hits what I point it at..
Originally Posted by Littlelebowski
Last edited by ralph; 12-28-08 at 14:47.
What part of the H&K build quality would you say is better than the S&W? I'm a big H&K fan because the newer guns (P30, P2k, HK45c, and HK45) fit me better than anything else on the market today, but I'm not a kool-aid drinker that thinks the high price tag = better quality. Both have steel guide rods, solid small parts, large extractors, good machining with no tool marks, similar finish (although I think the small parts finish on the H&K's is terrible as they lose the finish after minor handling), polished feed ramps, mags that eject forcefully from the gun, and steel sights from the factory. How else would you rate build quality?
One of the areas that the H&K's excel in is very good mechanical accuracy. I found the M&P to be at least close to equal in this regard in the limited testing of hitting 3" plates at 25 yards.
Again, I'm still up in the air on whether or not i'd buy this one off my father, because it is hard replacing a gun that I've gotten pretty good with and have proven out to be reliable over a lot of shooting, but the light rail issue has really gotten on my nerves recently with the only solutions being a duct taped 1913 adapter put in the wrong slot on a TLR-1 or an insight X2 that doesn't have the lumen output or battery life of a full size light.
So the pop psychology assumption is that HK $$ equal kool-aid drinkers? Good luck with that.
Last edited by HK45; 12-28-08 at 17:20.
No, I haven't..but it does seem odd that when I was out shooting the other day, I had 2 pistols with me, the M&P which I had shot before, and the HK USP, 9mm. I had never shot any HK pistol until then, Yet I was able to do very well with it (It also has a LEM trigger) I was hitting pop cans out as far as 35yds offhand.. 15yd shot were easy, I don't know what's going on, But I was easily able to shoot the HK well, and I had to struggle to get the M&P to shoot ok... I've been shooting .45 for over 20yrs, I've got 3 other .45's so I'm no stranger to the .45acp, But so far, I'm not impressed with the M&P...
Originally Posted by JohnN
No, i think you misunderstood me or I didn't come off the way i intended with that comment. I'm trying to get across the point that while i'm a fan of H&K and do consider them high quality, I can look at a gun that costs half as much and for the objective things that I can observe that I pointed out in my previous posts, state my opinion that the quality is equal regardless of price tag.
Originally Posted by HK45
I never said that people who spend money on HK = kool aid drinkers. There are a lot of people out there that drink the kool-aid of whatever brand they are a fan of and can't objectively look at another.
Well Right off the bat the trigger in my USP is better (it's a LEM) It came this way when I bought it, That alone puts it about a lightyear ahead of the M&P trigger, and for me, it hits what I aim at, something my M&P has'nt been doing real well for me. I'm not concerned about putting a light on it, I probably never will, so, that's a moot point. Fit and finish are about the same since both of mine are new I've no idea which one's finish will hold up better or longer. I look at it this way, HK invented polymer framed pistols about 30-40yrs ago. Before Glock was even thought about. S&W has been at it for about 5, who would you say knows more about them??
Originally Posted by givo08