Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: SBR questions...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    70
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    SBR questions...

    So I'm setting up a trust using Quicken WillMaker. Been doing a fair amount of reading here, at TOS and elsewhere but I thought I'd throw this out here since the opinions on this forum generally seem to be better informed. I have a Stag that I bought as a lower and then later put a Stag upper on it. I now want to SBR it. A couple of questions: WillMaker wants me to list property that belongs to the trust. Should I go ahead and list the Stag as property of the trust, or should I send in my Form 1 first? And when can I purchase a short upper for it? Do I have to wait for the ATF approval to come back, or can I just buy one (assuming I can find one) since it's only an upper and the Stag is currently in a legal, complete non-NFA configuration? I own a couple of other complete AR's. If it makes any difference I could store the upper at a non-gun-owning friend's house until the approval comes back. Finally, when does the engraving need to happen? Can I have it done any time after ownership of the Stag is transferred to the trust? Does it need to be done before assembling the SBR? Thanks for helping an NFA newbie out...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    104
    Feedback Score
    0
    You can list the Stag as property of the Trust now if you want to. I would not wait any longer than when you receive the stamp. Once the stamp is received it is definately Trust property and should be reflected in your Trust schedules.

    You will get mixed answers on when you can purchase a short upper. My personal recommendation is to wait until you have a properly registered lower (MG, SBR, Pistol) before purchasing the short upper.

    I normally have my engraving done as soon as I mail the Form 1. I do not recommend assembling the SBR without the engraving being done first. Also keep in mind that if you have the stamp before getting it engraved that you can't leave the lower with just anyone. New rules must be followed with NFA items leaving your possession.


    The above is just my opinion. TIFWIW

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,098
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    I too am considering going the RLT route, simply because my current posting abroad precludes ready access to my CLEO back home, and a Trust would would allow me to save time by submitting the paperwork while I am still overseas. Trouble is, there is a lot of surface-deep information out there, but very little in-depth guidance without retaining costly legal counsel. (Military lawyers have no idea what an NFA Trust even is, and civil experts routinely quote $600 for such a service.)

    Obviously, the Quicken WillMaker method would seem to provide a much better return on investment, but lacking an exemplar or reference Trust document leaves me with no idea what "right" even looks like. I am a previous Class III owner, but have no experience with setting up a Trust. Are there decent examples available online, or M4CN members here that might be willing to provide sanitized copies of their own RLT paperwork via private e-mail, perhaps? I don't want to overlook some obscure detail that seems trivial now, but which could result in significant headaches years down the road.

    Chief
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,228
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Just my HO, but I would NOT rely on a computer program for a trust. I used an attorney and am damn glad that I did .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    101
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    I had the exact same question and decided to call BATFE last week to clear it up.

    I explained that I was submitting a Form 1 to apply for making and registering an SBR via a trust. I asked if the firearm (existing lower) should be listed on the 'Schedule A' sent in along with the declaration of trust upon submitting the application. He said no, you are applying for ATF approval on making an SBR and that item would not be trust property until the trust is approved to own/register the property.

    I recommend doing your own research, but that was my experience for what it's worth. Hope it helps.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    257
    Feedback Score
    12 (100%)
    There's nothing that says a trust can't own a title I firearm, so I don't see why it couldn't be listed as a trust's asset prior to form 1'ing it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    70
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Thanks for the info and suggestions. I will certainly do some more research. It seems pretty straightforward, but I'm thinking I might see about getting an attorney to review it after generating the document from WillMaker.

    Chief, if you're willing to wade over into TOS, there is a long stickied thread there in the general NFA forum regarding Trusts. On page 13 (of 53 currently), a user named SWATH has posted images of the trust document that he used (generated using WillMaker and revised after consulting an attorney).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Posts
    4,098
    Feedback Score
    15 (100%)
    Argus,

    For obvious reasons, I'm hesitant to put too much stock in a TOS "How To" when it comes to legal matters, but I'll definitely take a look. It surely can't do any harm, and I have much to learn!

    Rob is right, of course, but I just had a sense that, if I could see one that was set up correctly, I might be able to get my JAG folks to do a once-over on it, and make sure I'm not missing any specific provisions that might apply to my 2A-friendly state. I'm no attorney, but I have had some graduate level law classes, and I do understand some of the associated linguistic complexities.

    I'm just lacking a basic framework from which to proceed, and the Quicken method is likely a bit too broad to deal with contingencies or long term disposition of an SBR. Yes, the SBR becomes a trust asset, but the associated NFA restrictions make this a bit more involved than declaring something like an espresso machine a trust asset. I guess I'm really questioning if there even is such a thing as a "one size fits most" RLT format, and my sense is that the answer is yes. And no. Go figure.

    Chief
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    22,988
    Feedback Score
    10 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerkid View Post
    I had the exact same question and decided to call BATFE last week to clear it up.

    I explained that I was submitting a Form 1 to apply for making and registering an SBR via a trust. I asked if the firearm (existing lower) should be listed on the 'Schedule A' sent in along with the declaration of trust upon submitting the application. He said no, you are applying for ATF approval on making an SBR and that item would not be trust property until the trust is approved to own/register the property.

    I recommend doing your own research, but that was my experience for what it's worth. Hope it helps.
    Interesting!

    I send my F1s in with my SBRs already added to the Sch A. There were no problems. They must have some flexibility in this since the end result is the same.

    Any property can be added to the Trust at any time. The only thing that would change would be the status of the weapon.... not sure if that would matter as far as Sch A terminology.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    101
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Interesting!

    I send my F1s in with my SBRs already added to the Sch A. There were no problems. They must have some flexibility in this since the end result is the same.

    Any property can be added to the Trust at any time. The only thing that would change would be the status of the weapon.... not sure if that would matter as far as Sch A terminology.

    I have seen the Form 1's approved with it done both ways.... I'm just doing it the way the nice man at BATFE told me too

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •