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Thread: SBR questions...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army Chief View Post
    Are there decent examples available online, or M4CN members here that might be willing to provide sanitized copies of their own RLT paperwork via private e-mail, perhaps? I don't want to overlook some obscure detail that seems trivial now, but which could result in significant headaches years down the road.
    Chief
    You are wise to worry about "some obscure detail." The do-it-yourself law forms that you can find in any Office Depot are generalized forms to be used in any of the 49 states. But, they are not state-specific. Bear in mind that, while estate and trust law is generally similar from state to state (but beware Louisiana!), it is a creature of state law. Thus, if you want to form a trust which conforms to the law of your state, you would be well-advised to use a go-by from that same state as the laws do vary from state to state.

    You can go to any gun show and buy a book on how to convert your AR to full auto. Or how to make a suppressor from 3 snuff tins, some bubble gum, and a little baling wire. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

    NFA playtoys, especially the FA kind, are pricey and gonna get worse. My advice is, find a lawyer who knows about NFA gun trusts. (Or set up a corporation. That doesn't cost as much as people think.)

  2. #12
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    A few Dinar from my end.

    I used Quicken Willmaker (actually the FFL did it) and I had zero problems. You just need to know what info to plug in where. As for going the corporation way I advise against it. First most all states require a corporation to pay taxes and information on corporations is almost always public knowledge. Only a handful of states (I think 8 or so) actually require that you file trust information with a local or county office.

    As for finding a lawyer that does NFA trusts, I did some research and didn't have all that much luck in Arizona. I also know someone that paid for one in GA (over 500.00) and I couldn't see anything different from what the "lawyer" version stated as opposed to the Quicken Willmaker version.



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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    As for going the corporation way I advise against it. First most all states require a corporation to pay taxes and information on corporations is almost always public knowledge. Only a handful of states (I think 8 or so) actually require that you file trust information with a local or county office.
    A trust is private and doesn't have the annual compliance that a corp or LLC has. On the other hand...

    1. Corp and LLC compliance is very easy. Like a one page form every year that the state corporation commission sends you and reminds you about.

    2. The existence of the corporation and very basic information is available to the public. The fact that it owns NFA weapons or that it exists for that purpose is not.

    3. There are some longer term advantages to an LLC or corp versus a trust. For example, your trust cannot exist forever - it is a vehicle designed by estate attorneys and the rule against perpetuities may prevent you from passing on your items without your heirs paying a $200 per item tax. If you use a LLC or corp, that entity can exist forever and you can assign, sell, bequeath, etc. your "shares" or ownership in the entity. The entity still owns the NFA items and thus no taxable transfer occurs even if you transfer ownership of the company. What all of that means is that you can leave the "company" to your heirs or sell the company, which of course includes all of its "assets" (the NFA items), and there is no transfer of the items in the eyes of the ATF.

    Just some things to think about. The trust route has become popular and it is not a bad option, but it is not the "best" one for everyone.
    Last edited by dbrowne1; 02-07-09 at 16:41.

  4. #14
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    Potatoe or Potato. Everyone has their thoughts.



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  5. #15
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    from what i can tell the corp route is a lot easier for most folks. my oregon corporation was stupid easy to set up. cost me a morning at the secretary of state's office (only because i didn't want to mail it) and $59 registration fee. one page of paperwork listing the officers and addresses and I was incorporated. $29 annual registration renewal fee- just completed the one page form to renew again this year.. took 2 minutes and they even let me fax my credit card info for payment.

    as far as it being public info- the only thing thats public is the fact that my corporation exists, it's mailing address (can be PO box), and the names of the officers. the items your corporation owns are not public.

  6. #16
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    I understand that the items that the corp. owns are not public, but I do know that there is alot information out there that can be had, especially with a good detective. Also, I believe that the corp. has to pay yearly taxes does it not? I simply prefer the trust route as the only ones that are in the loop are me, the FFL and BATFE. But, hey different strokes for different folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkb0000 View Post
    from what i can tell the corp route is a lot easier for most folks. my oregon corporation was stupid easy to set up. cost me a morning at the secretary of state's office (only because i didn't want to mail it) and $59 registration fee. one page of paperwork listing the officers and addresses and I was incorporated. $29 annual registration renewal fee- just completed the one page form to renew again this year.. took 2 minutes and they even let me fax my credit card info for payment.

    as far as it being public info- the only thing thats public is the fact that my corporation exists, it's mailing address (can be PO box), and the names of the officers. the items your corporation owns are not public.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  7. #17
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    Is one of these easier to relocate to another state? I am leaning toward a trust at this time.

    I have moved 9 times in the last 17 years... I expect to move again in the next few years.

    Thanks

    Buckaroo
    "It is better to be a Warrior in a Garden than a Gardner in a War"
    Let's use the First Amendment to protect the Second so we can avoid using the Second to protect the First.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I understand that the items that the corp. owns are not public, but I do know that there is alot information out there that can be had, especially with a good detective. Also, I believe that the corp. has to pay yearly taxes does it not? I simply prefer the trust route as the only ones that are in the loop are me, the FFL and BATFE. But, hey different strokes for different folks.
    no- quite the opposite. the benefit to the corp is that there are no taxes for most small businesses. the taxes only kick in once the corp exceeds $250,000 in annual profit- most dont, as any excess profit goes into bonuses and raises and such.

    my construction company hasn't ever paid a dime in taxes.

  9. #19
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    Corporation vs. trust

    Which is better, a Cadillac or a Suburban? My very accurate 14-pound AR-based NRA service rifle or your 12-1/2" Noveske SBR? Levis or FatButtz jeans?

    As with most everything in life, the answer depends on -- what is your situation? What are your needs? How much money do you want (or not want) to spend? Where do you live? Etc., etc.

    Search the web, do research, talk to knowledgeable people, pay your money, take your choice, and cross your fingers.

  10. #20
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    Engrave the lower before you send in the paperwork.

    That way, if the engraver botches the job, you're not stuck with a botched SBR for the rest of your life.

    You laugh, but I've read at least one instance of that happening already. The engraver botches the $20 engraving job and now the guy has $400 invested in his now-ugly SBR lower. Same if you have to ship it to get the work done. Much better to risk a $150 Title I lower than a $350 Title II lower in transit.

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