Staccato for CCW and Aluminum vs Steel Longevity

[w3453l]

Hey everyone, I posted this in another thread on the C2, but I didn’t want to drift the thread away from the OP. I have shot 1911’s in the past, but never owned one, and never really read too much about them. I’ve been getting more and more interested in the Staccato pistols, and started looking into them more and more. Something that stuck out to me, that I haven’t seen as an issue with polymer framed guns, was the steel vs aluminum frame debate. Is this a real thing? Or is it more more of a theoretical issue?

I saw mentions of aluminum frames not being as durable. Has anyone here seen one start to lose tolerances? I’m guessing the “aluminum frames will crack at 20k rounds” is mostly exaggeration, but how often do these start to wear out?

As far as the P and C2 go, for people who have experience with both:

Have you tried carrying your P? On paper it doesn’t look like they’re too far apart (P and C2). I’ve seen some people also remove the mag well off the P’s or swap the grips for C2 grips.

I know there’s the weight difference which is probably the biggest thing against the P for CCW, but I also see lots of guys saying they carry a C2 + X300 with an extra mag in one of the TRex holsters (or whatever the holster is that holds an extra mag on it). So I wonder how much of it is really a big deal.

To add onto the above, I think it’s a lot easier to hit 30k rounds than a lot of us like to say, at least IMO. Of course it’s not going to happen within one calendar year for most of us. But for a carry gun that you also train with regularly, those round counts quickly add up. If these things were priced like Glocks, it’d be less of an issue, but at close to $2k, I’d want it to outlast me and maybe my kids.

I probably won’t be buying one of these anytime soon, unless a good deal pops up, or I have some extra funds become available. I currently carry a G19 with RMR and X300 AIWB. I don’t know that I would switch over to a C2 or P from the Glock, but the temptation to at least try it is pretty strong.

[C-grunt]

The only time Ive heard of aluminum frames cracking have been on high round count 45/10mm 1911s. I believe Larry Vickers has a video about this. He recommends a steel frame for 45 and an aluminum frame for 9mm.

I think pretty much all of the legacy wonder-nines had aluminum frames. Sig P series, S&W DA/SA pistols, and Beretta 92 all have aluminum frames. There are many many examples of those pistols going well over 30k rounds and still running fine.

[gaijin]

The early issues with Alloy Frame 1911s was non-ramped barrels.
It was very common for the Frame Ramp to get chewed up/gouged, particularly with (sharp nosed) JHPs. The anodized Alloy frame wouldn’t hold up to the bullet end of cartridge repeatedly slamming into the Frame, to get into the barrel chamber.
And yeah, .45s we’re worse in this regard.
That issue has been resolved with the use of “Ramped Barrels”.
My Range/Instruction guns are Steel Frame simply due to the volume of rds I shoot.
I do have 20K+- rds through my C2 carry gun. I see NO extraordinary wear or fatigue of Frame Rails on it.
For me:
Dedicated Range Gun: Steel Frame.
Carry/Occasional Range Gun: Alloy Frame.

[DaBigBR]

It is unlikely to matter to 99.99999% of shooters.

What is your projected annual round count with this gun?

[w3453l]

The only time Ive heard of aluminum frames cracking have been on high round count 45/10mm 1911s. I believe Larry Vickers has a video about this. He recommends a steel frame for 45 and an aluminum frame for 9mm.

I think pretty much all of the legacy wonder-nines had aluminum frames. Sig P series, S&W DA/SA pistols, and Beretta 92 all have aluminum frames. There are many many examples of those pistols going well over 30k rounds and still running fine.

Yeah when I saw/heard all the comments about the aluminum 1911/2011 frames being weaker I was a little confused, I’m aware of all the Berettas and Sigs with high round counts, but thought maybe those wonder nines had something extra (like a steel piece or lining that would take the beating during cycling. I’m not an engineer, so I don’t know how outlandish that is in reality.

The early issues with Alloy Frame 1911s was non-ramped barrels.
It was very common for the Frame Ramp to get chewed up/gouged, particularly with (sharp nosed) JHPs. The anodized Alloy frame wouldn’t hold up to the bullet end of cartridge repeatedly slamming into the Frame, to get into the barrel chamber.
And yeah, .45s we’re worse in this regard.
That issue has been resolved with the use of “Ramped Barrels”.
My Range/Instruction guns are Steel Frame simply due to the volume of rds I shoot.
I do have 20K+- rds through my C2 carry gun. I see NO extraordinary wear or fatigue of Frame Rails on it.
For me:
Dedicated Range Gun: Steel Frame.
Carry/Occasional Range Gun: Alloy Frame.

45’s wearing out faster I could understand. And I’m assuming every current production 2011 would have the correct feedramps?

It is unlikely to matter to 99.99999% of shooters.

What is your projected annual round count with this gun?

I’d say 5k on the low end, 10 - 12k on the high. I usually practice with my carry gun; maybe down the line I’d get a duplicate, but it wouldn’t be soon.

[gaijin]

“ And I’m assuming every current production 2011 would have the correct feedramps?”

All Current production 2011s have “ramped barrels”, yes.

[w3453l]

Thank you, meant to say ramped barrels; early morning, little sleep, no coffee

[1168]

I’d say 5k on the low end, 10 - 12k on the high. I usually practice with my carry gun; maybe down the line I’d get a duplicate, but it wouldn’t be soon.

First off, I don’t have any of these. With that out of the way, if we assume they break around 30k (which I think isn’t likely), that’ll take you 3-6 years to reach, which is about average use for a hardcore shooter. It takes a dedicated competitive shooter a year or two to get there, and a normal person a couple lifetimes. Its also $9,000 worth of ammo, so if you really launch 10k rounds a year, you get in the habit of buying spares.

When fullsize aluminum semis get beat down, usually the way you notice is when comparing it to a new model and noticing that its a hair more rattly. This tends to be self-limiting, and usually requires a brand-new comparison gun to be noticeable. The only aluminum gun that I’ve hard broken was a Sig, and it had nothing to do with the frame, or material, although it was rattly at that point.

I do agree with Gaijin in that I would buy a steel one and an aluminum one, and dedicate the steel one to shooting, and the aluminum one would go into the category of shoot a little, carry a lot. This is a fairly common practice, and it is not due to durability, but mass. The heavier gun just shoots nicer.

In practice, I normally shoot a stack of nearly identical soulless plastic guns, but I’ve been effing with revolvers lately, and the light/heavy carry/shoot pairing is the path I chose.

[DaBigBR]

I’d say 5k on the low end, 10 - 12k on the high. I usually practice with my carry gun; maybe down the line I’d get a duplicate, but it wouldn’t be soon.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. Kyle Defoor really put a C2 through the paces and gave it away, no worse for wear. I think he cleared 20k in a year without any maintenance. No loss of accuracy. Just gave the gun away to a buddy, got another one, and started over.

I don't know this for fact, but I suspect that if you managed to crack an aluminum Staccato frame that they would warranty it.

This is something that I think most people thinking about it online are overthinking.

[w3453l]

Thanks guys, I had a feeling it was more internet overthinking similar to the AK stamped vs milled receiver debates.

I emailed Staccato asking about their Blem C2’s, and they responded that the blemishes are on the frame. They explained there was spots where the anodizing chipped off leaving exposed aluminum.

How big of a deal is this in the long term? I couldn’t possibly care less about aesthetics, but can there be any issues with oxidation of the exposed unfinished aluminum over time? I live in NC now; it gets pretty humid. I’ll be moving back to TX where it is very humid.