Mid-length gas system in the cold.

[Joe Mamma]

. . . most 16" mid-lengths I have will not reliably lock back when shot 180 degrees straight down . . .

I never thought about testing lock back like this. I might try it some time.

Joe Mamma

[georgeib]

I have that gun. The 14.5 BCM Middy with ELW barrel is by far the softest and lightest AR I have and it's reliable. The "no free lunch" factor is the gunfighter muzzle device is barkie. No concussion like a brake, but it's louder for the shooter.

I switched mine to an AAC flash hider. Definitely better.

[HKGuns]

I never thought about testing lock back like this. I might try it some time.

Joe Mamma

Just don't shoot your foot off Mamma.

[Uncas47]

I never thought about testing lock back like this. I might try it some time.

Joe Mamma

Try to envision a Marine on an Embassy roof, or an upper deck hosing miscreants on a lower deck, or vice versa. His battlefield is three dimensional, not a three gun flat range, might even be cold.

[Todd.K]

I expect it’s similar to my test of firing a rifle off the shoulder and held as lightly as possible. It’s a good proxy to cold, or fouled and unlubed.

[georgeib]

I expect it’s similar to my test of firing a rifle off the shoulder and held as lightly as possible. It’s a good proxy to cold, or fouled and unlubed.

Yeah, I live in the Southeast, so it rarely gets cold enough here for me to be able to test in the cold. Also, I don't have many opportunities to shoot straight down into the ground. So I've taken to testing with weak Russian ammo off the shoulder, as you describe. I figure if it locks back then, it should be fine in adverse conditions with full power defensive or milspec ammo.

[mig1nc]

Yeah, I live in the Southeast, so it rarely gets cold enough here for me to be able to test in the cold. Also, I don't have many opportunities to shoot straight down into the ground. So I've taken to testing with weak Russian ammo off the shoulder, as you describe. I figure if it locks back then, it should be fine in adverse conditions with full power defensive or milspec ammo.

Also a good representation of blind firing over a trench.

Ok, if you don’t doom-scroll telegram as much as I do then this may not resonate…


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[Todd.K]

You can freeze your ammo to do cold testing, or a cooler with dry ice.

[georgeib]

You can freeze your ammo to do cold testing, or a cooler with dry ice.

As an aside, aren't some types of powder and primers more temperature sensitive than others?

[sinister]

Split from another thread:

Originally Posted by RUTGERS95
middies blow in the cold and will choke in sub freezing temps unless you open them up negating the the 'supposed benefit' of the middy. I say supposed because Crane testing was immaterial. Dissy has the rifle length for longer sight picture before dots were a thing. Has nothing to do with someone needing long arms

Trying to figure out the basis of this statement I found https://partner-mco-archive.s3.amazo...1527866983.pdf which I suppose is or is related to the Crane testing that was dismissed as "immaterial." Why is it so? It shows less malfunctions with a mid-length gas system than with a carbine-length gas system at low temperatures. At the same time a reduced cyclic rate was observed. Are there conflicting reports?

Crane (for USSOCOM) formally tested the feasibility of mid-lengths for SOF operational use -- as far as I know, the only formal, published-released feasibility (and later acceptance) evaluation run under EPVAT conditions.

Crane then contracted for, accepted, and passed to equip USSOCOM. Not necessarily a DOD-wide mil standard -- and SOCOM doesn't care. Call it whatever you want -- civ-spec, commercial off the shelf (COTS), Special Operations-Peculiar, whatever. The customer asked for it, they adopted it, it works for them.

Don't like it? Don't buy it.