Shotgun vs AR for HD (inside the house).

[ndmiller]

I was thinking go with what you're trained with and prepared to deploy against said intruder.

"Aw it was just a handful of 00 pellets or one 55gr bullet, I'm fine and will just go now" said no intruder ever as if we're using a Ruger No 1 as our self defense choice.

AR or SD Shotgun with equal training and manipulation skills is probably a complete tossup.

[titsonritz]

On another note I don’t own a 410 and not sure why I would limit myself to one when I have two 12ga shotguns that I train with.

[Harpoon]

How much spread does it have at the length of a hallway in your house?

With an open choke maybe 1-2 inches spread at 15 feet. But as soon as shotgun buckshot pellets hit they spread out in the medium. Gel test shots show this very well.

[Inkslinger]

With an open choke maybe 1-2 inches spread at 15 feet. But as soon as shotgun buckshot pellets hit they spread out in the medium. Gel test shots show this very well.

So when comparing a .410 to an AR15, you have time on target (rounds impacting), and terminal performance. So you have to ask yourself at what speed can you get 4/5 rounds into your target from your AR vs. .410, and how much damage will result.

Obviously all pellets from a .410 will impact essentially at the same time. With a 1-2” spread will they cause as much damage as a defensive 5.56 round?

For me personally, I’m confident I can deliver much more damage from my defensive 5.56 rounds at a speed and hallway distance that a .410 doesn’t even register on my list of potential HD defensive firearms.

That’s all without factoring in all the other pros of using a semiautomatic rifle with a 30 round magazine.

[Harpoon]

On another note I don’t own a 410 and not sure why I would limit myself to one when I have two 12ga shotguns that I train with.

I did not suggest that anyone use a 410 for HD. I merely asked a question.

[titsonritz]

Does a shotgun deliver more energy on target with a single shot? Yes. A shotgun is an ax, while an AR is scalpel, at 15ft a 69gr Gold Dot through medulla oblongata equals flaccid paralysis…lights out, doesn’t get much faster than that.

[C-grunt]

Ive seen several people shot with 12 gauge buckshot. And from a pure damage on target angle, the 12 gauge is probably king for shoulder fired weapons.

That being said, I think many times the difference is more academical than real world. For example. Lets take a single round of 77 grain TMK center chest. The round is immediately going to fragment the entire front end and absolutely shred the heart. Is a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot center chest going to do more damage to the heart? Yes. But either way the heart is going to cease function immediately. In my experience good hits with either are usually fight stoppers.

The only places where I think the buckshot has a legit advantage are sub optimal hits at slightly longer ranges where the buckshot spread has better chances of hitting vitals. Also maybe with head shots. We've had several cases where a 223 round has hit the thick bones of the face or teeth and diverted at an extreme angle and come out the side of the face. I find it highly unlikely that all pellets from buckshot would do that. I havent heard of that happening.

[georgeib]

There are a couple more aspects to home defense that haven't been mentioned yet. Multiple attackers, and also the proliferation of body armor. In both of these increasingly more common scenarios, an AR in 5.56 holds easy advantage over a shotgun.

[MegademiC]

If hes wearing body armor, no comparison on effectiveness.

4 round balls 70gr with an unpredictable terminal path with no TC? No thanks, If I had 1 shot it would be an AR with bonded soft point.

If i ran a 410 it would be slugs... then you compare that to cased ammo, and why not use that?

410 sucks all around

[vicious_cb]

Ive seen several people shot with 12 gauge buckshot. And from a pure damage on target angle, the 12 gauge is probably king for shoulder fired weapons.

That being said, I think many times the difference is more academical than real world. For example. Lets take a single round of 77 grain TMK center chest. The round is immediately going to fragment the entire front end and absolutely shred the heart. Is a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot center chest going to do more damage to the heart? Yes. But either way the heart is going to cease function immediately. In my experience good hits with either are usually fight stoppers.

The only places where I think the buckshot has a legit advantage are sub optimal hits at slightly longer ranges where the buckshot spread has better chances of hitting vitals. Also maybe with head shots. We've had several cases where a 223 round has hit the thick bones of the face or teeth and diverted at an extreme angle and come out the side of the face. I find it highly unlikely that all pellets from buckshot would do that. I havent heard of that happening.

^This

If your hits are good, it doesnt matter. If your hits are bad and follow up shots are needed then you need to ask how fast is your recovery time? Can you pump the action at speed 100% of the time without short stroking?

With an AR-15 its not difficult to get some shooting 0.25s splits on a A-zone at 7 yards.